Help Repairing a Bally 1072 EM Slot Machine

[mboessen]

Hi, All:

Trying to pull the trigger on the restoration of my cousin Frank's Bally Model ? 1072 EM 4 reel "Yankee Doodle Dandy" Slot machine.  With the help of a lot of folks here, I have a replacement for my missing hopper mech on order.  Does not have the correct payout disk, but I guess I'll deal with that later.  I have downloaded all of the manuals recommended in a previous thread, along with "Bally-An Introduction" and the Bally troubleshooting guide--not sure if it is relevant to this model.

While I am waiting for the hopper to arrive, is there anything I can be doing?  I know from Wooftalk that my reels are installed in the wrong order, but don't know if the ?index wheels? are messed up.  Is there cleaning and lubrication I can be doing?  Checking switches?  Timing?  I need to fix the AC line fuse holder, which I will do.  I presume I don't want to power it without the hopper installed?

Any suggestions would be appreciated, so I can get a head start on it.

Best

Mike

[wolftalk]

there's a couple things you can do:

1] unscrew the hopper socket in the cabinet and flip it around so you can see all the wire colors. 

compare to the plug chart shown on the 815-1 schematic.  The wire id -> color mapping table is on the schematic and in a sticky topic on this board.   For example, 13 = red with a yellow tracer/stripe.

for the hopper plug, an 809 schematic is no good because the 809's used a 30 pin hopper plug. 

when you get the hopper, you'll need to do the same thing on it.  If you're lucky, all you need to do is make sure the wire colors match up between the plug and socket and at least verify the 120V wires are correct.

2] index discs and reel tapes

you already know the reels - or at least the index discs - are on the shaft in the wrong order.  Without removing the top of the tape from the reel tin, the next easiest thing to verify the index discs match the tapes is look at the tape (m-220-xxx) and index disc (p-484-xxx) definition files in the 815-1 folder.  The info file in that folder says:

reel tapes                : m-220-[893, 894, 895, 896]
index discs              : p-484-[717, 718, 719, 720]

so the reel with the p-484-717 index disc should have a tape with symbols PL, BELL, BA, CH, OR ... on it, starting at the top of the tape.

the other gotcha is if someone took off the index disc, it's possible to install it incorrectly.  If you look at the 1- thru 3- pictures in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_info/reel_strip_positioning/ afaik the concept of the reference hole to slot 1 position should be correct for all machines.  If it's not right, see if you can remove/replace the index disc to make it right.

I suppose someone could have removed the strip from the tin also, and you'd use the above three pics to figure out where to reposition it (gently pry up the crimps to loosen the tape, spin tap to where you want and recrimp to hold it in place.

[mboessen]

Thanks!!  I'll get started.

[mboessen]

Hi, All:

I gather from a reply to the old thread, that I will need a set of extension cables.  This makes sense.  Curious if anyone here would have these, and be willing to loan them to me for a while.  I will never do another one of these, so would rather not have to buy them.  I would, of course, pay shipping both directions and a little extra for your trouble.

I have some suggestions from Wolftalk concerning getting the reels and index disks verified, as they are clearly not correct, but unknown to what extent.  That is on my list.

Everything that moves on this ?reel chassis?" is gummy and sticky.  I'm going to get the solenoids and counters off of it and work on getting it degreased while it is cool and I can work outside.
Best
Mike

[David Walz]

Hi, All:

I gather from a reply to the old thread, that I will need a set of extension cables.  This makes sense.  Curious if anyone here would have these, and be willing to loan them to me for a while.  I will never do another one of these, so would rather not have to buy them.  I would, of course, pay shipping both directions and a little extra for your trouble.

I have some suggestions from Wolftalk concerning getting the reels and index disks verified, as they are clearly not correct, but unknown to what extent.  That is on my list.

Everything that moves on this ?reel chassis?" is gummy and sticky.  I'm going to get the solenoids and counters off of it and work on getting it degreased while it is cool and I can work outside.
Best
Mike

You need to build your own cables.
You need to invest in some wiring, I have a bunch of wires that have the two colors, that way you can match up the correct wires to the hopper.
Get a notebook and start writing down the wiring for the hopper, comparing it to the wiring diagram. It's a long process, but enjoyable.
Tools: Soldering gun, ohm meters, Molex connectors, professional wire strippers, Molex crimper, industrial cleaner, roach clips for testing, extra parts, and more.

[mboessen]

Hi, David:

Well, I need to build my own cables if I can't find a loaner set.  I'd rather avoid it as I will never need them again.

You mention "Molex" connectors.  I was presuming we were talking about the big black connectors on the back of the hopper and reel assy.  I've never heard of them referred to as "molex" connectors.  I have molex connectors, pins, tools, and lots of wire.  But there are no molex connectors involved in plugging in the 2 chassis', are there?

Best

Mike

[David Walz]

Hi, David:

Well, I need to build my own cables if I can't find a loaner set.  I'd rather avoid it as I will never need them again.

You mention "Molex" connectors.  I was presuming we were talking about the big black connectors on the back of the hopper and reel assy.  I've never heard of them referred to as "molex" connectors.  I have molex connectors, pins, tools, and lots of wire.  But there are no molex connectors involved in plugging in the 2 chassis', are there?

Best

Mike

The cables are for diagnostics, I have 5 total, I have several EM slots and they need attention every now and then. They are dinosaurs that are extinct. 😁

[wolftalk]

I wouldn't worry about extension cables.

most of the wiring going to the hopper is to the payout disc and payout relay, and you can just verify that stuff is correct by looking at it.

while not as convenient, clipping a test lead/jumper wire to someplace and shoving the hopper back in works well enough, especially if there's a hole in the front of the hopper you can see the payout relay thru.  If the payout relay is mounted on the back where you can't see it, then

1] connecting a jumper to the wire that is NOT the orange wire 70 on the payout relay coil, which on most games with be grey-yellow wire 93

2] shove the hopper back in

3] touch other end of jumper to yellow wire 30 on the coin switch

the payout relay should power and turn on the hopper motor.  If that works, you know the payout relay is powered if the hopper motor is running.

[mboessen]

Thanks, Wolftalk:

I won't lie, right now a lot of that is greek to me, but when the hopper arrives, I'll have this info.

Removed the relay coils and counters from the "reel chassis" today, sprayed it with Kano Labs Floway, let it soak a bit and pressure washed it with warm water at about 500 psi.  Blew it out with low pressure compressed air and set it in front of a fan for a few hours.  Counters and coils are back in.  Lubed everything, and now it all operates smoothly.  Cleaned all the switch contacts and put a little DeOxit on them.  One of them the switching action seems wrong to me and will probably need to be adjusted.  Tomorrow I'll polish all the brass wiper contacts and give them a tad of DeOxit as well, wipe it off and give 'em a little wipe with light silicone oil.  I need to apply power with the chassis out and verify that all my supplies are there.  Then I will tackle the Reels.  I'm not absolutely sure I know how to tell when they are correct, but If I can't figure it out, I know where you guys are.  Waiting on the hopper.  Guy messaged me and said his basement flooded.  Just my luck that his bad luck had to coincide with me needing that dang overpriced Hopper.

Best

Mike
Be

[wolftalk]

I need to apply power with the chassis out and verify that all my supplies are there. 

if ya turn on the game and lights come on, your 120V and 6V are good.  If you can drop a coin in when the handle is locked and it doesn't return back to the tray ... but if you power off it does ... then your 50V is ok.

dropping a coin in should cause the coin relay on the lower left side of the reel mech to trip, but without the hopper you won't have the circuit thru a payout relay switch needed to trip the handle release relay and allow a spin.  However, if you use a wire or paperclip to jumper between grey wire 90 and white/orange wire 57-1 on the hopper plug, that should allow the game to more-or-less work except no payouts or bell ringing.

there's a 50V jumper testing video in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/ that shows how you can test a bunch of stuff without needing beau plug extension cables.

[mboessen]

Hi, Woolftalk:

That handle release solenoid is latching type, so I can flip it with my finger and cycle the handle one time.  The reels all spin nicely, and stop sequentially, so I think mechanically it is good.  The Dashpot switch leaves were pretty trashed.  Based on my years of experience I reformed them to function like I think they should.  Won't know until I get it powered up. There are 2 wires cut off the dashpot switch and soldered together.  From the diagram I was not able to discern their function.

I cleaned and lubed the handle mechanism.  It seems to work as it should.

So I decided to take a look at the door.  Oh boy.  Mr Butcher has been VERY busy here.  I tried to drop a coin as you suggested, and all kinds of bad stuff happened.  So I pulled the coin mech and there is a chunk of plywood jammed in there.  (see photo "chunk of wood in coin mech". )  Behind the coin mech there is a little metal finger that looks like it is supposed to protrude into a hole in the back of the coin mech.  That looks to be operated by a solenoid, and has been intentionally bent backward so it can't do its function.  See photo "bent piece in coin mech base."  Am I correct about that?  Following the coin path a little further it gets a lot worse.  See photo "coin path butchery".  First there is a little metal deflector (blue arrow) that looks butchered.  I have no idea what it's original shape was.  There is a splice in a couple of yellow wires going to the coin switch that I'm not sure about.  Below the coin switch there is a metal deflector that looks to be designed to divert coins to the house when the weight switch in the hopper says the hopper is full.  This is operated by a solenoid (red arrow).  The solenoid has a metal finger that looks to be intended as a travel limit (again, red arrow).  This has been intentionally bent to prevent the operation of the solenoid.  The wires to one side of the coil have been cut (yellow arrows).  The coil reads 90 ohms, so I presume this wasn't done to bypass a bad coil.    The green arrow just indicates the little bent finger behind the coin mech referenced earlier.

Next, behind the "?house counter?" and chute there are a couple of wires that are just hanging in the air.  See photo "mystery wires behind house counter".  Any idea what those are for?

Lastly (so far) the wires have been cut off the door safety switch and tied together.  From looking at the switch, it appears to be the type that you pull "out" for service when the door is open.  Am I right about that?  The actuator is busted off of this, so it needs to be replaced.  I need to know this to get the right type.

Any advice toward rectifying all of this would be greatly appreciated.

I need to find that Bally wire color chart you mentioned earlier.  I've lost that note. Can you remind me where to look for that?

I have a doctor appointment at the VA, a hair cut, a golf match and a local concert tomorrow, so might not hear from me.  Should be back at it after I mow Saturday.

Best

Mike

[wolftalk]

The Dashpot switch leaves were pretty trashed.  Based on my years of experience I reformed them to function like I think they should.  Won't know until I get it powered up. There are 2 wires cut off the dashpot switch and soldered together.  From the diagram I was not able to discern their function.

the dashpot switch with typically blue/white (25-1) and white/red (51-1) wires is one of a few in series to the handle release relay coil and coin lockout coil   It's basically verifying the reel mech has fully returned to its rest position after a spin.  If something causes the mech to jam up - especially an issue with the shaft that is metered by the clock/fan that is latching the reels - then the switch won't be closed and you can't coin the machine or unlock the handle.  'course, if you can't coin the machine, you can't trip the coin relay and that would also prevent the handle from unlocking, so there's a bit of redundancy in some of the circuits.

it looks like someone disconnected 25-1 and tied it to something else that is yellow/green?  If the y/g wire it's tied to is not in the tied wiring harness or the harness was obviously loosened/untied, someone added it and you'd want to see where it goes.

if it is in the harness, is there one or two switches on your dashpot stack and what are all the wire colors?

So I decided to take a look at the door.  Oh boy.  Mr Butcher has been VERY busy here.  I tried to drop a coin as you suggested, and all kinds of bad stuff happened.  So I pulled the coin mech and there is a chunk of plywood jammed in there.  (see photo "chunk of wood in coin mech". ) 

that's an interesting way to accept almost any coin ... block the reject chute and assuming the top of the plywood is slanted send the coin to the accepted chute to trip the coin switch :-)

Behind the coin mech there is a little metal finger that looks like it is supposed to protrude into a hole in the back of the coin mech.  That looks to be operated by a solenoid, and has been intentionally bent backward so it can't do its function.  See photo "bent piece in coin mech base."  Am I correct about that? 

yup!  The most common issue is caused by the coin lockout relay being almost always powered, eventually wear on the coil top and/or the armature plate will get the thing buzzing.  Bending the armature tab is overkill ... putting a piece of tape on the back of the coin mech is good enough to stop the tab from poking into the coin path in the mech and causing the coin to reject (ignoring the plywood).

to shut up the buzzing, sometimes people disconnected the lockout coil then needed to disable or remove the armature.

Following the coin path a little further it gets a lot worse.  See photo "coin path butchery".  First there is a little metal deflector (blue arrow) that looks butchered.  I have no idea what it's original shape was.  There is a splice in a couple of yellow wires going to the coin switch that I'm not sure about.  Below the coin switch there is a metal deflector that looks to be designed to divert coins to the house when the weight switch in the hopper says the hopper is full.  This is operated by a solenoid (red arrow).  The solenoid has a metal finger that looks to be intended as a travel limit (again, red arrow).  This has been intentionally bent to prevent the operation of the solenoid.  The wires to one side of the coil have been cut (yellow arrows).  The coil reads 90 ohms, so I presume this wasn't done to bypass a bad coil.    The green arrow just indicates the little bent finger behind the coin mech referenced earlier.

the top of the left coin guide next to the coin switch tripwire is normally bent out to ensure the coin dropping out of the mech doesn't hang up there.   Your coin guide plate to the right looks cut - I'd guess it was a plate for a smaller diameter coin and was not allowing a quarter to pass thru.  If a quarter works, I wouldn't worry about it.  You can look at https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/873-ZC/pics/873-ZC%20-%20inside%20door.jpg to see what things normally look like (maybe different wire colors tho).  Can't post that pic here - it's is too big for the NLG limit.

the double yellow wire normally connects to the coin switch - possibly someone cut out a coin switch and took too much yellow wire with them, so the next guy had to add a pigtail to reach.  It's functionally correct, but the splice point should be insulated.

the coin diverter is another buzz factory.  If you're going to remove a double wire from something tho, you need to keep the two wires connected together or you've broken the wire daisy chain and whatever was downstream will no longer work.  What's the color of the separated wires?

Next, behind the "?house counter?" and chute there are a couple of wires that are just hanging in the air.  See photo "mystery wires behind house counter".  Any idea what those are for?

if the wires are green/yellow (43-1) and yellow/brown (36-1), they be for a key switch on the side of the cabinet that could be used to get the game out of jackpot lockup mode.  Jackpot lockup is whenever the pay is more than the machine can pay directly in coins, so the game halts and the balance is paid by hand by casino floor folks.

most casinos didn't use the release key as the person doing the hand pay had a front door key and wrote some stuff on paper cards kept in the machine.  With the door open, there's easier ways to stop lockup.  There was apparently a few places tho that never allowed the floor folks access to the game internals.

Lastly (so far) the wires have been cut off the door safety switch and tied together.  From looking at the switch, it appears to be the type that you pull "out" for service when the door is open.  Am I right about that?  The actuator is busted off of this, so it needs to be replaced.  I need to know this to get the right type.

ya didn't post a pic of that, but one style of switch is just a pushbutton that closes when the door is closed.  The other type was a microswitch operated by a door hinge.   It's not a necessary switch and can be annoying if the circuit operates an anti-cheat relay that drops out when the door is opened.

wire id -> color chart is on all the schematics, and if you look at the sticky "how to guide" topics on the top of the board listings there's one about color codes.  It's here - https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=146.0

[mboessen]

Hi, Wolftalk:

Well, after you explain it, it all makes sense.  The 2 wires on the dashpot switch that were cut from the switch and soldered together are Blue/wht and yel/grn.  The switch has 2 sections, with the second section wired with 2 Wht/red on one contact and 1 Grey/blk on the other.

On the coin diverter solenoid, it isn't a double wire connection.  He just cut the wire going to the coil.  The wire color is Brn/yel.  (or maybe Gray/yel can't tell for sure.)  My only question, with this diverter disabled, is what happens when the hopper gets full?  Since this will be for home use, maybe that won't ever be a problem.

Couldn't post the picture of the door switch as  the site only allows 5 pictures.  I'll attach it here.  Mine is a micro switch arrangement, and doesn't look like something I 'm going to find.  I'll probably leave it bypassed.

Hopper is on the way.  Now that I understand all of the "butchery" in the door, I can ask Frank what he wants to do about it and if he wants to spend the time and labor to try to make it original again.

Gotta get going to town.  Thanks a TON!  Amazing how well you know this stuff and had a reason for every single modification I saw in the machine.

Best

Mike

[mboessen]

Hi, All:

I have in hand a hopper mech I just bought on ebay.  I can't find any markings on it to tell me what the model is.   The payout disk is part #M-645-101.  The payouts don't even remotely match my machine, and it has some issues.  I'm struggling a lot with documentation on this machine.   Wolftalk has been trying to help me, but, as my little brother used to say, "I guess I'm just not a good worker".  I can't find documentation that matches the 4 wheel Reel mechanism, and I can't find the documentation for this hopper mech.  This keeps me from learning the correct nomenclature so I can ask intelligent questions.  I need to figure out what I need for a payout disk so I can get to work modifying what I have, trying to find a correct disk, or get busy making one from scratch.  That third option is not looking good as the phenolic board material is VERY thick and I doubt I will find a blank circuit board that thick that I can etch. 

Problems I am aware of:

First, the hopper mech fits the rails, and the plug seems to align well, but it won't seat all the way into the jack in the machine.  It goes in about 1/4" and stops.  I'm wondering if the 2 round pins are too long.  It's really hard, with mirrors and lights to see what's going on, but I can see the 2 round pins on the hopper plug engage the round holes on the jack.  I can see the flat blades go in about 1/8", but then it stops.  It's not hitting anything else in the machine.  I took the jack loose in the cabinet and then the hopper will slide in an additional 1/2" so the problem is the plug mating.  I've carefully checked all the contacts in the jack in the cabinet and I don't see any problems with any of them.

Second problem is there is a relay someone has jerked the coil contacts out of the coil (breaking the wires) and substituted a big resistor and a smaller one for the relay coil. (Photo "butchered relay on Hopper Mech". ) Good news is the wires are still there and the coil still reads continuity, so I can fix it.  I just need a diagram to tell me where the wires go.

Third:  See "hopper above" photo.  Someone has jammed a piece of steel behind the square actuator on the end of the "wiffle ball arm" preventing that switch from being actuated.  I thought I read somewhere that "hopper full" was determined by weight, but this looks to me like a "hopper full" sensor arrangement.

Any help would be appreciated, especially documentation.  I can do all the fixing I want, but I need to resolve this payout disk problem eventually.

Best

Mike

[mboessen]

Hi, All:

Looking further at "second problem" from post above, I think I have realized that the resistors belong there, and the broken off contacts from the relay coil are just shipping damage.  I can repair that.  I'll busy myself cleaning all the switch contacts and putting on some DeOxit, then degreasing and lubricating.  Fooled with the mating plug some more and determined that the round pins are not too long.  Still haven't figured that problem out.  I'll keep at it. 

Best

Mike

[wolftalk]

the relay with the now busted coil is the payout relay.   The broken off coil lugs are in the yellowed plastic sleeving and the 470 ohm resistor went across the two lugs along with some wires and the 8200 ohm resistor.

it's probably easiest to replace the coil, but it may be possible to repair it.  You can remove one turn of wire from the coil and scrape off the varnish insulation with
a razor so it's bright copper, then solder the wire to a lug.  Leave a little slack. 

unfortunately, the other end of the coil wire goes into the inside of the spool and you can't remove a turn of wire ... so you either have to splice it or hope it's long enough to reach the lug.   Hence, it's easier to replace and the seller should kick you back the money to a new coil since he didn't package it well enough to prevent the damage.

the coil number is G-31-1800.  You can get one from pinball parts suppliers - cheapest is usually pinball resource, but they are old school on ordering.  I just email the order (what you want and your shipping address) to PBR@pbresource.com.  They ship it along with an invoice and I have my bank send them a check.  They don't take credit cards.

you have other relays on the hopper?

the payout disc I though supported all your pays except it has a 2 trace instead of a 3 trace.  You can use it as-as and it just underpays by one coin until you find/make a disc that has what you want.  A thinner board wouldn't matter as long as it stays flat - with wiper fingers can be bent down a little to compensate for a thinner board.

the old style hopper like you have uses the float switch to unpower the diverter on the door and send the coins to the overflow.  The later style hoppers used a microswitch operated by weight of coin in the bowl to do the same thing.  Both methods work.

assuming nothing is physically preventing the plug from seating all the way into the socket, ya just gotta shove harder to get it seated :-)  However, it's possible the socket bracket in the cabinet is taller and the payout relay coil is hitting it ... maybe you broke the coil lugs off shoving the hopper in?  In any case, if the payout relay is hitting it, you'll need to relocate the relay.

your next task after dealing with the hopper sliding in all the way is comparing the wiring on the plug and socket.   You want to see if/how many wire colors are the same between the plug and socket ... .i.e. the wire colors are supposed to stay the same between the plug and socket.  For any mismatches, you'll want to figure out if wires need to be moved.

if ya email the highest possible resolution pictures of the wiring of both the plug and socket to me at slotpics@cdyn.com, I can help ya compare the circuits.   Most of the wires go to the payout counter unit and the payout relay, so it's pretty straightforward to verify everything.  e.g. red/yellow wire 13 on pin 1 of the plug/socket goes to the 2 trace on the payout counter disc.

the most common wire colors on the traces are:

15 - 5 trace
27 - 10 trace
41 - 14 trace
51 - 18 trace
23 - 20 trace
43 - 50 trace
81 - 100 or 150 trace
54 - 200 / A trace

you don't need all those traces as your game doesn't have some of the pays, but generally speaking if the cabinet socket has a 27 wire, it almost certainly goes to the 10 trace.

the wires you don't want to screw up are solid white 50 and solid black 80 ... those are 120V.

you'll also want to unscrew the payout counter and flip if down so you can see the ratchet side.  You may or may not have a delay relay with capacitor and a microswitch and cam attached to the ratchet.  Pictures of the hopper with the payout counter flipped down will help. 

to flip down the payout counter, remove the upper screw attaching the unit to the hopper frame, loosen the lower screw and push down the spring on the linkage so you can disengage the link and pivot the unit down with the lower screw acting as a hinge point.

[mboessen]

Hi, Wolftalk:

Grr.  Just spent a half hour typing reply and the web site ditched it for some reason.  Here we go again:

Payout relay.  Cool.  I have that fixed.

No other relays on the hopper.  2 solenoids, both coils ohm good.

Need payouts: 3,5,10,14,18,150,200
New hopper has:  2,5,10,14,18,20,100,150.  Should be able to extend the 2 trace, not?  Not sure about 150 and 200.  I'm pretty good at modifying traces on circuit boards, having done it a lot to save unobtanium circuit boards.

That plug, well, it is becoming very infuriating.  I can see the round pins enter the socket in the chassis and go in 1/4 to 3/8 inch.  I can see the hopper plug move up slightly (a few thousandths) in its loose mounting when the round pins engage.  I can see the blades go into the plug about 1/8" and stop.  I'm wondering if my blades are a bit larger or something.  It looks like I have to remove 19 wires from the hopper plug.  I might just strip them all and try to mate the plug into the cabinet jack manually.

Plug wiring.  About as bad as it can be.  Only 4 wire colors match.  Can I assume that if I match colors I will be good, or do I need to ring them out to their destinations?  It seems like that will be extremely difficult without a hopper wiring diagram, which I can't find.

I'm trying to post the 2 wiring charts I made of the plug and jack, but it looks like the web site doesn't like my .jpg of them.  I'll try that again with this second post.

No delay relay.  I'll try to post a picture of the back side of the payout assy, again, with this second post.

There is a switch in the cabinet to the right of the reel mechanism that is just labeled "on and off".  Switching it doesn't seem to change anything.  Can you enlighten me about that?

I think while I'm waiting for a reply I'll just strip all the wires off the hopper plug so I can test it with the cabinet jack.

Can't thank you enough for all the help and patience.  I was playing with it a bit yesterday and actually hit 4 bells.  Lights lit, bell started ringing, and I couldn't stop it, even after I unplugged it.  It stopped when I initiated another spin.  That can't be right, can it?

Best

Mike