Need help. Modified Bally 1088-34

[wolftalk]

does the coin unit reset when you deposit the first coin and step up once when you deposit the second coin?  If yup, that's how it's supposed to work and you may just have an issue with the light control.

if the game will accept 3+ coins, that's just the missing/non-working coin lockout bits behind the coin mech.

the 1088's were primarily dollar machines and used a coin scavenger solenoid for rejecting coins.  The logic for the circuit was inverted from the coin lockout circuit used on lower denomination games.  In the scavenger circuit, a solenoid coil powered to yank in a plunger and reject a coin.  In the lockout circuit, the lockout coil was held powered to withdraw an armature/peg from the mech whenever it was okay to accept a coin.

to convert from scavenger to lockout, they inserted a relay to flip the state and that relay was usually mounted on the door near the coin mech.

the 1088-34 schematic shows the coin lockout relay that does the invert, but they labelled the coin lockout coil "coin scavenger coil" against their convention, and it's unlikely they would be using an actual solenoid for something that could be powered forever.

[J_RADTKE]

Your first two statements are correct. 1st coin resets, second coin steps up. And yes, It will accept 3+ coins.  Makes sense that it is a lighting issue. When the 1st coin is dropped in, the first coin lights that are not working will flicker for a half second.  They just don't stay on.

[DavidLee]

As mentioned before the first coin lights typically stay on all the time.

There’s a set of contacts most likely on the coin step up unit that stay closed.
Possibly someone adjusted them open, but when the ratchet wheel returns it causes the contacts to momentarily close.
Probably have to trace the first coin wire from the light panel to the step up unit.

[wolftalk]

assuming the large socket in the top compartment is what mates to the larger plug on the lamp panel board, they changed the wire colors at the plug connection.  Feel free to give them a dope slap if you ever meet them.

from the pics, it looks like the black/red wire controlling the 1st coin light changes to an orange/white wire at the plug, and the orange/white wire is connecting to a lug on the coin unit contact plate.

also assuming the picture of coin unit wiper side is when the wipers are stepped up once, that isn't going to work as the wipers won't reach the rivet connected to the orange/white wire.

IF the yellow wire on the socket is wire 30, that turns into the gray/red wire on the lamp panel.  Connect the grey/red wire to where the black/red wire is now on the lamps and you're done.  If you have a molex pin and really want to be nice, replace the gray/red wire with a solid yellow one so the wire color matches between the plug and socket and the next person to look at thing can immediately see what is going on.  Bonus if you change the black/blue wire to a black/white one as well :-)

to verify the yellow wire is 30, turn on the game and poke the blue and yellow wires in the socket with a voltmeter.  If you get 6VAC, the yellow wire is 30.  If you trace the yellow wire back to a bally factory connector and it's yellow there, then it's wire 30.  The only solid yellow wire in the machine is wire 30 daisy chained all over the place.

the coin unit wipers need to do two functions on this game:

1] light the second coin light when the unit is stepped up once
2] connect grey wire 90 to grey/red wire 91 (assuming 91 is what is being used on the reels).

whoever was fiddling with the coin unit didn't have a good understanding of how it works. 

below is a diagram of a line/coin unit.  The diagram is drawn with unit reset and  looking at the wiring side of the contact plate, so you have to mentally flip it over when looking at the rivet/wiper side.  The 1088 doesn't have a wire 98 connection, so ignore that.

things to note:
1] the fingers on the span of 6 adjacent fingers are all connected together and to nothing else
2] the two fingers opposite the 6 span are connected together (stacked in the hub) and to nothing else.  They are not used on the 1088
3] the remaining 6 fingers are all connected to each other and are actually a pair of redundant wiper sets.

therefore, when the unit is reset, the wipers don't do anything interesting.  When the unit steps up once (wipers rotate one rivet clockwise on the diagram, one rivet counter-clockwise when looking at the wipers on the machine), this happens:

- wire 30 (yellow) is connected to 85-5 (black/white)
- wire 80 (gray) is connected to 91 (gray/red).  91 is the power feed to the second coin payouts.

the 1088 was a three coin game, so the coin unit would step up twice from the reset position.  On that game, you can see from the diagram when the unit stepped up the second time:
- wire 30 is connected to 85-4 AND 75-4 (orange/white).  75-4 was the 3rd coin light.
- wire 90 is connected to 91 AND 93 (grey/yellow).  93 was the power feed to the 3rd coin payouts.

on your machine, someone unnecessarily moved the 91 and 93 wires.  I'd guess they didn't know there is wiring on the back side of the contact plate connecting the rivets like the diagram shows.  Assuming that wiring is still there, I'd put the unit back to like the factory had it:
1] move the gray/yellow 93 wire to the lug next to it with the solder on it
2] move the grey/red 91 wire to the lug where the 93 wire was.

to verify the wiring is still on the back correctly, you can either remove the wipers and contact plate and look, or just use an ohmeter to verify the rivets are connected to lugs like the diagram shows.  You can also just verify the lug with the 90 is zero ohms to the lug next to it when the unit is stepped up once.

after tidying up that stuff, the next thing is what the relay next to the coin unit is doing.  You need to know:
1] when does that relay power.  One of the orange.red wires connects to orange wire 70 ... where does the other one go?
2] the bottom switch is connecting yellow wire 30 (the yellow/white wire connects to yellow at the other end) to the black/red wire that isn't connected on the door.
3] the top switch you'll need to follow the wires to see where they go

you have a decent chance the entire relay isn't doing anything useful and you could remove it and the extra wiring they added.  imho, the closer you can make the machine to a two coin version of the 1088-34, then better.  Then the 1088-34 schematic will match and you could take that schematic and erase the 3rd coin pieces and have the documentation for your game.  The coin unit diagram will match if you put the 91 and 93 wires back where they originally were ... it would just be a 1 step unit instead of a 2 step unit so the 93 and 75-4 wires aren't being used.

[J_RADTKE]

I started getting into this tonight and tracing wires, removed the reels to chase them down and noticed another weird modification. Random wire soldered into the 1st wiper board, but the other end I'm pretty sure was just kind of floating behind the reels... Also, another wire that was twisted over an existing solder point on the 3rd wiper. Wolf , makes perfect sense with changing the pinout for the 1st coin light as the old wire is cut at the back of the light panel. I do have molex plugs and pins I can properly fix this with. Seems everytime I'm after one issue, I find another. Pics.

[wolftalk]

a 1088-34 looked more like the picture david showed in post #5.

your machine was got rid of the low pays so there will be a bunch of reel wiper wiring that isn't being used.  If ya look at the 1088-31 docs on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ there's a w-1041-xxx file that is the reel wiper wiring.  It's mostly duplicate info for what's on the schematic circuit-wise, but it shows the actual wiring of rivets and lugs on the reel wiper boards.

generally, the lowest rivet arcs are used for 6V circuits for the bell and the tower lights (if any).  It's pretty common to see wiring changes on the reel wiper boards there as people changed when the bell rang.  On the 1088-34, the factory wired it so the bell rang for BE and higher payouts.  In your machine, that would be all pays.

since the 1088-34 originally had BE, OR, PL and CH symbols in addition to the bars and 7's and now you have bars and 7's in addition to unusual combinations of 7's, there's going to be changes in the reel wiper wiring.  What ya really want to know is if the slotted metal index discs are the ones from the 1088-34 or if they changed them.  Bally stamped codes onto the discs ... do you have any?

unfortunately, my docs with machine definitions for the 1088's ended at 1088-16, but if they are bally discs I may have the disc definitions for the codes. 

I assume you have blanks the reels can stop on, and if the reel 1 wipers are sitting on rivets at the position with oddball wire the payline has a blank.  If the other end of the wire isn't attached to anything, just remove it.  If it is being used for something, it would be a lot nicer to connect the rivet to a lug and have the wire going elsewhere attach to the lug.  One less hack :-)

if ya really want to understand the reel/payout, you can draw your equivalent w-1041-xxx diagram.  There're blank templates in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/svg_templates/ ... tho I have 1 reel per page since most people don't have 11x17 printers. 

the svg file can be edited in open source program inkscape or just print out three of the the blank page png file and write in the wiring, take a picture and email it to me and I'll edit the svg since I almost remember how to do it quickly (the key thing is all the rivets and lugs have # symbols in them that may have visibility turned off so you can't see them ... turn visibility on and use the text tool the change the # to whatever number is appropriate - use the numbers from the 1088-34 schem).  For unused rivets, turning off the visibility is better than deleting the # in case ya screw up.

[J_RADTKE]

I verified that there was 6.3 VAC between the blue and yellow at the molex plug that feeds the light panel. I switched the grey/Red to where the black/red is. All lights illuminate on power up. First coin triggers and a buzzing is heard in the top cabinet and then no response to 2nd coin deposit. It steps up and freezes. Also, when this disc steps up, it does so clockwise from the wiper side, which is opposite of your explanation, unless I understood incorrectly. I believe my earlier picture was at rest. Wipers rotate 1 set of contacts clockwise on 1st coin as viewed from the wipers and contacts.  2nd coin deposit rotates back to the original set of contacts.  I can email a video if that helps.

[J_RADTKE]

As far as the reels go, I have attached photos. You can tell the machine screws have been messed with and 1 is missing. The plates are labeled as follows from left to right as viewed on the machine. Any 7 DU 1, ANY 7 DU 2, ANY 7 DU 3. Also, the counter has been replaced and the wiring is laughable at best.

[J_RADTKE]

The top cabinet relay wiring. Fist pic is relay mentioned, second is for color code.
1) Red mark goes to red mark which I believe is the step up solenoid, color is orange/red.
2)orange mark to orange which is the left reel plug in the pin circled in orange. color is also orange/red
3) The black wire marked in purple goes down to the bottom cabinet and it "T" ed into a red/white and black/red which go back up the harness. (photo)
4)The yellow/white goes to what I believe is the reset, it ties into 2 other solid yellow wires.
5)The black/red wire marked in blue goes to the bottom cabinet molex on the right and changes to a grey/yellow

I had more photos but have reached the max for this post, I'm sorry if my terms are off for the components,learning as I go.

[wolftalk]

I verified that there was 6.3 VAC between the blue and yellow at the molex plug that feeds the light panel. I switched the grey/Red to where the black/red is. All lights illuminate on power up. First coin triggers and a buzzing is heard in the top cabinet and then no response to 2nd coin deposit. It steps up and freezes. Also, when this disc steps up, it does so clockwise from the wiper side, which is opposite of your explanation, unless I understood incorrectly. I believe my earlier picture was at rest. Wipers rotate 1 set of contacts clockwise on 1st coin as viewed from the wipers and contacts.  2nd coin deposit rotates back to the original set of contacts.  I can email a video if that helps.

the stepper unit behaviour is a bit less obvious because it only steps once.

on the ratchet side of the unit, the solenoid coil with the brown wire is the step-up coil.

if the unit is stepped up due to two coins played, the coin after the spin will reset them ... the wipers reset clockwise.

if you play a second coin, the unit steps up and the wipers rotate one rivet counter clockwise.

since it's a two coin game, the wipers shouldn't be able to rotate any further counter-clockwise due to a flat/missing tooth on the ratchet.  The game is also supposed to reject any additional coins inserted back to the tray, but you need a working coin lockout for that.

you have 25 stop reel index discs (25 slots).   The 1088's I know about were all 22 stop games.  Also don't have any info on that code stamped into the disc.

having said that, your reels have 5 possible symbols (blank counts as a symbol) and it looks like you have 5 slot depths.  Below is an example diagram for 25 slot discs.  Looks like you have depth 1, 2, and three deeper slots that are at least depth 5.

the likely thing is:

depth 1 = blank
depth 2 = 7
deepest = bar
2nd and 3rd deepest = double bar and triple bar

so if ya move the reel so it's indexed in the/a 2 depth slot, there's a 7 on the payline. 

since the index discs aren't recycled from a 1088, the slot depths should map to reel tape symbols exactly.

the wiring reel wiper wiring will not match the 1088-31 tho since that game had the 7 on a depth 1 slot.  You'll have to figure out the circuit if you have pay problems, but it's pretty straightforward.

[wolftalk]

short answer is the added relay is probably jackpot lockup for a 777 win and prevent the game from paying 100 coins when you get a 777

if you are down to payout problems, first thing is to see if the reel index positions match the tape symbols per previous post.  If that's ok, an ohmeter can be used to verify something like a mixed bar with one coin played and eventually a voltmeter to see what's failing if the payout relay is not powering when it should.

tmi
----

The top cabinet relay wiring. Fist pic is relay mentioned, second is for color code.
1) Red mark goes to red mark which I believe is the step up solenoid, color is orange/red.

that's the reset solenoid.  If they did a good job, the wire color would be solid orange since it's the 50V power source that daisy chains to almost all the coils.  I guess the best they had was an orange/red wire.

2)orange mark to orange which is the left reel plug in the pin circled in orange. color is also orange/red

per the 1088-34 schematic, pin 18 on that reel mech plug is not used.  Now ya gotta look to see if they attached a wire to pin 18 on the reel mech and where does it go.   All we know at the moment is the added relay was powered by something on the reel mech ...

3) The black wire marked in purple goes down to the bottom cabinet and it "T" ed into a red/white and black/red which go back up the harness. (photo)

the red/white would would be 15.  Originally that goes from the reel 1 wiper board to the 2 trace on the payout counter disc.  If they cut that wire, did they attach their extra wires to the 15 wire going to the payout counter or the 15 wire going to the reels?

4)The yellow/white goes to what I believe is the reset, it ties into 2 other solid yellow wires.

the yellow/white wire is going to the coin unit end-of-stroke switch as a convenient place to get to wire 30.

the solid yellow factory wire anywhere in the game is wire 30, which is the common neutral ("ground") wire from the transformer for the 50V and 6V circuits. 

ignoring the 120V stuff, the game is mostly wired with one side of loads (lamps, coils) tied to a fused power rail (orange wire 70=50VAC, blue wire 20=6VAC), and the rest of the circuits are connecting the other side of the load to wire 30 to activate the load.

5)The black/red wire marked in blue goes to the bottom cabinet molex on the right and changes to a grey/yellow

the grey/yellow wire on a payout counter plug is 93-5.  Are you sure they tied to that?

it looks kinda like what they did is got lazy on rewiring the reel wiper boards.  On the 1088-34, position 2 on the reel wiper board = slot depth 2 on the index disc = cherry pay ... they hijacked the cherry pay wire (red/white 15) and are using it for 100 pay, and the purpose of the added relay in the head is to disconnect the 100 pay if someone gets a 777 win.  Only way to really know for sure is diagram the 7's circuits through the reel wipers/boards.

in effect, the added relay is a jackpot lockup relay - which the 1088-34 didn't have.  When a hand pay is needed, the games had a jackpot lockup relay which prevented accepting coins until the jackpot was cleared by an attendant.  Sometimes the hand pay was the entire amount, sometimes the game payed 200 coins and they hand paid the rest - customer chose how to do it.

[J_RADTKE]

I fixed the lighting in the top cabinet, just followed the diagram and blue and yellow for first coin is general illumination. I had matched the colors how I got the machine prior and they were wrong.

2) Pin 18 on the reels side went to the orange shown in my photo that was on the wiper board but connected to nothing, looks like a broken cold solder. I removed that wire.

3) the black wire tee's into 15 and 81 of the plug to the reels. I physically traced them there.

5) I was wrong, It changes to 78 Org/Blk that goes to the payout counter.

If I understand correctly, If I manually set the reels to any winning combo, It acts as a closed circuit. In my mind, It makes sense that I could verify the payline by manually setting the reels to a win and testing for continuity, correct? Can this be done with the reel assembly out of the machine? I'm sorry if these are dumb questions, I'm still cutting my teeth on these machines. Hahaha.

[DavidLee]

Testing for continuity with the reels out of the machine.

On the third reel wiper board a common solid grey or possible grey/red wire
is what needs to be located. They’re usually located on the top row on either end in most cases.
With a winning combination on the center line continuity from grey wire should be present all the way to the first reel wiper board.

[J_RADTKE]

Perfect, thanks! I'll test that today. I played on the machine awhile yesterday and the pays just dont seem right.

[wolftalk]

just a suggestion, but if it was my machine I'd do the following:

1] get rid of the extra relay in the top compartment and put any wires they cut on the reel plugs or hopper plug back together.   

2] fix the wiring on the coin/line unit so it's exactly like the 1112-2 drawing in post #23 - basically, move 93 to the lug next to the one it's on and put 91 on the lug 93 is on.

you will now have a coin unit that powers wire 90 on the first coin and additionally powers wire 91 on the second coin

now ya just need to change wiring on reel 3 wiper board.  Referring to the 1088-34 schematic, you'd want wire 90 connecting the rivets at the bar positions and you want wire 91 connecting to the 7s.  Wire 93 is unused.

that will give you a machine that is very close to a 1088-34, follows the bally conventions and you could make some changes to the 1088-34 schematic to create a schem for your game.  All the changes would be in the reel wiring and the payout counter traces they connect to.

if ya want more info, email me highest possible res picture of the reel 3 wiper board wiring side ... ideally a few angles so the spaghetti wire connecting the rivets to the lugs is determinable.

wrt jackpot lockup ... I'd make the game pay 200 coins on the 777 win and forget about lockup ... if you were actually paying, someone will find you to get the rest of the payout before they spun again :-)

what is expected is what dave said ... put one probe on wire 90 and set up the reels for any 1-coin win.  You should have zero ohms to the appropriate wire on reel 1 that is going to the payout counter trace. 

e.g. If your payout counter wiring is per the 1088-34 and you set up a mixed bar win, you know the reel 1 wire for a 10 pay is wire 27 and you should have zero ohms between 27 and wire 90.

[J_RADTKE]

I'm going to do exactly these things. I will send the hi res photos of the reel wiper boards shortly.

[J_RADTKE]

just a suggestion, but if it was my machine I'd do the following:

1] get rid of the extra relay in the top compartment and put any wires they cut on the reel plugs or hopper plug back together.   

2] fix the wiring on the coin/line unit so it's exactly like the 1112-2 drawing in post #23 - basically, move 93 to the lug next to the one it's on and put 91 on the lug 93 is on.

you will now have a coin unit that powers wire 90 on the first coin and additionally powers wire 91 on the second coin

now ya just need to change wiring on reel 3 wiper board.  Referring to the 1088-34 schematic, you'd want wire 90 connecting the rivets at the bar positions and you want wire 91 connecting to the 7s.  Wire 93 is unused.

that will give you a machine that is very close to a 1088-34, follows the bally conventions and you could make some changes to the 1088-34 schematic to create a schem for your game.  All the changes would be in the reel wiring and the payout counter traces they connect to.

if ya want more info, email me highest possible res picture of the reel 3 wiper board wiring side ... ideally a few angles so the spaghetti wire connecting the rivets to the lugs is determinable.

wrt jackpot lockup ... I'd make the game pay 200 coins on the 777 win and forget about lockup ... if you were actually paying, someone will find you to get the rest of the payout before they spun again :-)

what is expected is what dave said ... put one probe on wire 90 and set up the reels for any 1-coin win.  You should have zero ohms to the appropriate wire on reel 1 that is going to the payout counter trace. 

e.g. If your payout counter wiring is per the 1088-34 and you set up a mixed bar win, you know the reel 1 wire for a 10 pay is wire 27 and you should have zero ohms between 27 and wire 90.

I am aiming for all these things. I removed the relay from the upper cabinet and am restoring the wiring to original. It looks like 81 was removed from the left payout counter molex plug, and 15 & 81 were t tapped into the relay. I also found 13 just floating loose in the harness to the payout counter as well. The plan is to restore these 3 wires to the payout counter molex plugs. (pics)

[J_RADTKE]

Coin unit pictures front and rear, 1 jumper is broken. Just verifying the mods as stated in post #23 with this being the current setup. I don't want to make mistakes. Hahaha!