Bally 831-ZZSH help needed/schematic

[TwistedTerrain]

Hi!

I am new here, and I have read through a LOT of the topics here on the Bally 831 already. Some have helped me with some of the issues I have, while I have not found others I need, so I will ask in my own post.

I have the above-listed 831-ZZSH that I acquired for free from a friend. It was a gummy mess, and the reels did not spin all the time. I cleaned them the best I could, and now they work perfectly and are paying out when hit. This unit does have a lot of cut/wires missing connections (which I have read is normal in some of these units). I am particularly interested in getting the reel light back in the unit. Someone had cut it out to install an LED tube; I have the ballast and starter, but quickly gave up. If I had the schematics, I would figure it out from there, but on the https://bingo.cdyn.com/ site I cannot find a schematic of the lighting that can help me (there are a lot of them there, though).

The second item: sometimes the payout calls for a 2-coin payout, but I only get 1; other times it dispenses 2. This is the same for most of the lines where there is a payout; I am figuring this is a "house always wins" scenario, but I would like it to be correct. I checked the contacts around the payout wheel, and they all have a good, clean connection.

Third, there are times when the coins are not accepted and are rejected back into the tray. I made some minor adjustments to the coin acceptor. I worked on a lot of video games in arcades in the past, and I even swapped in another from a parts box I have; the same thing happens. Then one day they just work.

Fuses are all good, and there are no meters that were in the machine when I picked it up, so that may account for some of the wires.

I will post some pictures once I get more, but here are the few I have now.

Thank you for all the help in advance.

[wolftalk]

I am particularly interested in getting the reel light back in the unit. Someone had cut it out to install an LED tube; I have the ballast and starter, but quickly gave up. If I had the schematics, I would figure it out from there, but on the https://bingo.cdyn.com/ site I cannot find a schematic of the lighting that can help me (there are a lot of them there, though).

the schematic (w-1046-xxx file in the 831-ZZSH/ folder on the bingo site) isn't very specific about the wiring for the door fluorescents ... there's three tubes, each with its own ballast and starter. 

the thing ya need to know is the tube/starter depicted on the schem is the reel glass tube, so the wires you need are identified.  Since they are on the door plugs, that hints the starter and ballast aren't on the door.  For the reel tube, the ballast/starter is mounted on the left side of the cabinet behind the top door hinge.

the schem is kinda poor, but wire 13-1 is on pin 1 of the 12 pin door plug.

in the bally_manuals/ folder you'll find the 2400 manual and the 400 manual.   The 2400 supercedes, but the 400 manual still has lots of correct information for an 831.

if you wanted to install a led tube that runs on 120VAC without a ballast, you need to:

- remove wires 80 and 13-1 from the ballast and tie them together.  Remove the starter.   You can abandon or remove the ballast/starter for the door (note there's another one on the cabinet wall for a top sign).
- connect wires 13-1 and 50 to the ends of the led tube.  Those wires should be floating around someplace, but they may be black right at the tube socket.  If you're lucky, they are still there and connected.   Wires 78-2 and 56-1 aren't needed and shouldn't be connected to the led.  While removing the starter solves that, you may want to disconnect the wires someplace so if a person installs a starter nothing happens.
 
personally, I'd go with an led ... but I also have a boxful of fluorescent tubes to use up or get rid of somehow.

the lighting in your pic is a bit dark to see details.  On the 431-4Z/ on the bingo site you'll find pics like the inside of the door. 

The second item: sometimes the payout calls for a 2-coin payout, but I only get 1; other times it dispenses 2. This is the same for most of the lines where there is a payout; I am figuring this is a "house always wins" scenario, but I would like it to be correct. I checked the contacts around the payout wheel, and they all have a good, clean connection.

the pay ends when the wiper contact steps off the end of the energized trace on the payout counter printed circuit disk (on the hopper).

the 831 is a mechanically stepped payout counter and there's no multiplying, so every coin ejected from the hopper rotates the wipers on the payout counter one step (ratchet/gear tooth).  In that case, a short pay of 1 coin is typically one of three things:

1] the reset position of the wipers is a little off and the first step of the unit is actually moving the wipers two ratchet teeth instead of one.  This is controlled by the zero stop bumper and the spiral cam.

the early zero stop bumper as an eccentric puck that you loosen and spin to adjust where the spiral cam stops.  The later design was a screw with something that looks like a rubber pencil eraser, and when you turned the screw the rubber bit went up/down to set the reset position.  The 831-4Z is a later style payout counter/zero stop bumper setup.

2] the ends of the copper traces have burnt away a bit so the wipers contacts are not reliably on the trace and the pay ends one step/coin early

if the short pay only happens on a couple payout amounts - typically the ones used the most - then damaged trace ends is more likely.

3] the zero stop bumper position is fine (the unit is reliably grabbing one tooth when the pawls flop down onto the ratchet on the first step),  but the wiper contacts are a bit too far along the trace.

the check for this is to reset and manually step up the unit once and see where the wiper contact is on the 2 trace.  If it's too near the end, you have to remove the +-shaped outboard carriage and spiral cam, loosen the screws holding on the printed circuit contact plate, and twist the contact plate a little to shift the wiper contact further back on the trace.  If twist too far tho, you can then get a one coin overpay.

check contacts on other traces ... e.g. step 4 times from reset and look where the contact is on the 5 trace, 9 times and look at the ten trace.

Third, there are times when the coins are not accepted and are rejected back into the tray. I made some minor adjustments to the coin acceptor. I worked on a lot of video games in arcades in the past, and I even swapped in another from a parts box I have; the same thing happens. Then one day they just work.

when it's rejecting, you need to know if the coin lockout magnet/coil behind the coin mech is powered.  When not powered, the armature tab pokes into the mech and causes a coin to reject. 

when a coin rejects unexpectedly, you can remove the mech and look or to see if the problem is mechanical, you can cover the hole on the back of the mech with tape so the armature can't poke in and see if a coin is always accepted - even if it doesn't do something useful.  e.g. you play four coins before spinning ... the 4th wouldn't do anything noticeable.

[TwistedTerrain]

I have most of the issues I encountered all squared away. I am still looking for the bulb and assembly for the reel light. I may go to LED, but then it looks weird compared to the other bulbs in the machine. I would replace them all, but that would require some new bases and rewiring since I cannot find all the bulb types in LED, specifically the W63 bulbs. I am also looking for the top candle for this unit. I believe it had one at some point since there are some holes up there, but I see no wires inside that would run up there and light it when a jackpot is hit. Also, I am not hearing the bell all the time for the top payouts to hit, but it does ring sometimes, so I know the solenoid is working.

[wolftalk]

you're missing the fluorescent tube mount on the top of the door (2400 manual page 72, parts 11, 43-45)

those are odd things to be missing, so you'll probably need to find someplace that has scrapped out machines for parts like klar or other companies that refurb slots. 

candles they also typically have and they pop up on ebay occasionally.   The wiring from the candle goes to the terminal strip in the top compartment.

a w63 lamp is just a specific vendor (maybe westinghouse).  The lamp is a 63, so that's what you search for on places like comet pinball.  Note they are typically used as flashers in pinballs, but a 63 is a 63 ... 7V lamp, G18 bayonette base).

the 831-ZZSH schem is a bit underwhelming on the bell, but I assume the unlabeled box connecting to the 1-5, JP and bell is the motor-driven jackpot unit in the top compartment.  When wire 67-1 is connected to wire 30 AND the jackpot unit motor is running, you wind up with a repeating light chasing sequence and a bell chirp.

top and bottom 777 wins lock up, so the payout relay doesn't matter.  Center line 777, bar and melon wins should power the jackpot unit motor and to the light/chirp thing for the duration of the payout (while the payout relay is powered). 

so ya need two things ... the jackpot motor running and the switch on the appropriate win relay to be closed to complete the circuit to the lamps/bell.

'course, if you don't really have a 831-ZZSH, then you may not have the jackpot unit and will need to see how the bell is configured.