Ceronix 1492- screen flicker and horizontal centering issues

[Todbedy]

Got another one!

I came across a old IGT Video PE+ Double Diamond slot machine over the weekend. The monitor powers up and color looks good but the screen has a flicker and has horizontal centering issues. There is a slight chirp that can be heard as well. Here's a video of what I'm seeing:

 https://youtube.com/shorts/8hrDkr_J7dk

From what i'm reading in the repair log, the chirping could be a result of many different components. I'll post another video containing better audio of the chirping

Thanks

[Chris-socal]

That's a good find.
All of the hold adjustments are done electronically. You need to replace the critical caps: The one in the power supply, the ones near the horizontal hold portion of the board, as well as the one by the Vertical IC.  Those can cause all kinds of image issues, including Hold (Vertical and Horizontal).
The good news:  The colors are bright, the flyback works and the XRC5184 is good.
The chirp can certainly be caused by any of the mentioned caps being out of spec. I have seen some of those that are so far out of tolerance they might as well be resistors.

With a 1492 you always start with those critical caps. Since all of the hold, pincushion, brightness and balance are controlled by IC's, if the caps are out of spec the IC's don't get good information. Also look at traces on the bottom of the board especially yoke pins.

Chris

[shortrackskater]

TOPIC SPLIT
For new projects, please start another topic.  

[Todbedy]

That's a good find.
All of the hold adjustments are done electronically. You need to replace the critical caps: The one in the power supply, the ones near the horizontal hold portion of the board, as well as the one by the Vertical IC.  Those can cause all kinds of image issues, including Hold (Vertical and Horizontal).
The good news:  The colors are bright, the flyback works and the XRC5184 is good.
The chirp can certainly be caused by any of the mentioned caps being out of spec. I have seen some of those that are so far out of tolerance they might as well be resistors.

With a 1492 you always start with those critical caps. Since all of the hold, pincushion, brightness and balance are controlled by IC's, if the caps are out of spec the IC's don't get good information. Also look at traces on the bottom of the board especially yoke pins.

Chris

Thanks for the help Chris! I order in a cap kit and get started on the cap replacement. Are cap kits something you stock?

[Chris-socal]

Get ready for the hate responses:

I order most of my caps from Bob Roberts, they sell a cap kit for around $7, which is about what they are worth. I rarely pay for brand name.  They also sell individual caps and 10-packs. I have NEVER had a problem and I randomly check ESR on caps before I install. Their process is a little different, you email them a list of what you need, they give you a total and you mail a check. It's kinda funny but they do not accept any form of electronic payment. If you develop a good record they will cross-ship your order once you give them a check number.  http://www.therealbobroberts.net/

I can't remember if it was your thread or another where I mentioned that I also bought a cap assortment on Amazon (Bojak caps) and it has been great. Although it doesn't have some of the larger caps you need.

I don't buy many cap kits anymore, I have a bin with all the common Monitor caps.

Here is my canned rebuttal in advance:  I have replaced hundreds of brand name caps that aren't that old but test bad and I have found dozens of boards with no-name caps that are 40 years old and working perfectly. Don't try to tell me a 5 year old cap sitting in a bag is a big deal.

Chris

[Todbedy]

Get ready for the hate responses:

I order most of my caps from Bob Roberts, they sell a cap kit for around $7, which is about what they are worth. I rarely pay for brand name.  They also sell individual caps and 10-packs. I have NEVER had a problem and I randomly check ESR on caps before I install. Their process is a little different, you email them a list of what you need, they give you a total and you mail a check. It's kinda funny but they do not accept any form of electronic payment. If you develop a good record they will cross-ship your order once you give them a check number.  http://www.therealbobroberts.net/

I can't remember if it was your thread or another where I mentioned that I also bought a cap assortment on Amazon (Bojak caps) and it has been great. Although it doesn't have some of the larger caps you need.

I don't buy many cap kits anymore, I have a bin with all the common Monitor caps.

Here is my canned rebuttal in advance:  I have replaced hundreds of brand name caps that aren't that old but test bad and I have found dozens of boards with no-name caps that are 40 years old and working perfectly. Don't try to tell me a 5 year old cap sitting in a bag is a big deal.

Thanks for the recommendation, sent Bob and email to place an order for those caps. Hoping to get her up and running when they come in. I’ll keep you posted on the progress!

Chris

[Chris-socal]

For sure, anxious to hear how much the caps help and glad to help if you still have a problem. Bob also sells an assortment of the most common Monitor caps, it's about $40.

This is a good set to have around.   https://a.co/d/9qqJoAG
Some of the caps that will shut a board down are in this set and come in very handy.

Chris

[Todbedy]

Update:

I swapped out all the Caps today on the monitor and the result is the same as the video I originally posted.

Some things I have done as well to try and narrow down the search for the source of the issue:
- Swapped in a known working monitor
- Swapped a known working screen adjustment board (the one with the 5 adjustment knobs)
- Pulled the end board off the tube and re-seated
- Pulled all connectors off the 1492 board, inspected and reconnected

I do have pieces from the critical repair component kit I'll probably try next  (160V diode, 1.2 ohm resistor, vertical IC, 191k Resistor ...etc). I'm guessing it's one component that is giving me the issue.

So close! 

[Chris-socal]

Im very confident this is not related to the power supply section of the board.
PRA-H board maybe.
Problem with a component in the Horizontal or vertical section. Both are labeled on the board.
Im going out to look at a board right now. I don’t think LA7830 going out would cause this , I think its either good or bad. Not sure honestly.
Be back with more in a few minutes.

Chris

[Chris-socal]

There is a resistor or pot #200, verify those values are correct. Make sure a resistor didn’t burn open also 233. This could be XRC5346 the color controller I suppose. Its rare to have a problem with it.
Alsi, if any of the PRA color boards has a problem you will have a problem with all the colors and video in general.
Look very closely at them for cracks.

[Chris-socal]

I had another thought. Are you sure this monitor worked in this game at some point? Are you sure the jumpers are set for an IGT game?  The 1492 board can be used for several different machines by changing the jumpers on the bottom of the board. This is covered in the Ceronix manual near the very back. If it was set for a different game type it would cause strange sync and color issues.

Chris

[Todbedy]

I had another thought. Are you sure this monitor worked in this game at some point? Are you sure the jumpers are set for an IGT game?  The 1492 board can be used for several different machines by changing the jumpers on the bottom of the board. This is covered in the Ceronix manual near the very back. If it was set for a different game type it would cause strange sync and color issues.

Chris

The monitor does have burn marks from the game so it has been playing the game for a while. Are the jumpers you mentioned the ones on the main game board?

Here's something else interesting i noticed. There are 2 connectors coming from the plug on the bottom of the monitor that dont seem to go anywhere. 

What i might do is put this monitor in my PE+ Poker game and see if the issue persist.

[Todbedy]

I put it into the PE Draw Poker game and it has the same issue. Interesting thing is I get the most adjustments changes with the V size adjustment (see video) but it doesn’t adjust the vertical size as it should. Another clue to the mystery???

https://youtu.be/guaJEb4jlc0?si=7MCK7p-3OuAkq1zp

[Chris-socal]

I keep going back to my original theory that something is wrong in the sync or one of the color boards. Try disconnecting the H sync then V sync one at a time to see if removing one of those makes no change. If it doesn't make a change you know that the board isn't getting that sync signal.

If it's the PRA-H board you would need to remove it and inspect it very close up. I had a board going into shut down and couldn't figure it out for over a year. I finally pulled the PRA-H board and upon close examination found one of the traces had burned through. It wasn't even visible to the naked eye. It's a critical component. I'm not saying that is your problem but if you eliminate all of these other issues you do need to check that.

Regarding the jumpers, I'm not talking about whether the tube was in a Poker machine, I was wondering if the board was maybe from another brand of machine. It's possible someone put a new board in and it's jumped for another brand of poker that isn't compatible with IGT. The jumpers are solder jumps made on the bottom of the board in the corner near the voltage regulator.

Go to the very back of the 1492 manual and the jumper chart spells it out. IGT is something like Q,S,X & Y. Pic attached for IGT jumpers.

Chris

[Todbedy]

I keep going back to my original theory that something is wrong in the sync or one of the color boards. Try disconnecting the H sync then V sync one at a time to see if removing one of those makes no change. If it doesn't make a change you know that the board isn't getting that sync signal.

If it's the PRA-H board you would need to remove it and inspect it very close up. I had a board going into shut down and couldn't figure it out for over a year. I finally pulled the PRA-H board and upon close examination found one of the traces had burned through. It wasn't even visible to the naked eye. It's a critical component. I'm not saying that is your problem but if you eliminate all of these other issues you do need to check that.



Regarding the jumpers, I'm not talking about whether the tube was in a Poker machine, I was wondering if the board was maybe from another brand of machine. It's possible someone put a new board in and it's jumped for another brand of poker that isn't compatible with IGT. The jumpers are solder jumps made on the bottom of the board in the corner near the voltage regulator.

Go to the very back of the 1492 manual and the jumper chart spells it out. IGT is something like Q,S,X & Y. Pic attached for IGT jumpers.

Chris

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but are the V sync and H sync that you’re talking about the knobs on the top of the monitor for adjustment?

Here’s my PRA - H board (on and removed)

[Chris-socal]

No problem. No, it's the yellow and purple wires on the video input. R,G,B,G,V,H  (the last two in the input wires) marked V and H on the input connector on the board.

I don't see any trace problems on the PRA-H but do you have a way to check that 10uf square capacitor that is surface mounted?  This looks like an older generation 1492 and that cap can fail.

Also, I forgot to address that connector with the brown and blue wires, where does that connect to? I have never seen that. You need to figure out what that connects to.
If it goes to nothing and is just clipped to the tube or something it's o.k. but if it's connected to the 1492 board it makes me think again that this board isn't originally for IGT

Chris

[Todbedy]

No problem. No, it's the yellow and purple wires on the video input. R,G,B,G,V,H  (the last two in the input wires) marked V and H on the input connector on the board.

I don't see any trace problems on the PRA-H but do you have a way to check that 10uf square capacitor that is surface mounted?  This looks like an older generation 1492 and that cap can fail.

Also, I forgot to address that connector with the brown and blue wires, where does that connect to? I have never seen that. You need to figure out what that connects to.
If it goes to nothing and is just clipped to the tube or something it's o.k. but if it's connected to the 1492 board it makes me think again that this board isn't originally for IGT

Chris

Good news! I swapped the PRA H board from my working monitor and the one with the issues works!!! Your instincts and experience were spot on!

https://youtube.com/shorts/hcneQIXo-68?si=TzmKY3r4GG2vnEFq


Now to diagnose the issue with the bad H board

[Chris-socal]

That 10uf cap.
Here is a fixed one, not pretty but it works. Negative toward the flyback…the line on a surface mount indicates positive.

Look closely at all the traces, sometimes a break looks like a fiber. Plus the board has a very thick coating on it.

BTW the picture is really good on the monitor!

[Todbedy]

That 10uf cap.
Here is a fixed one, not pretty but it works. Negative toward the flyback…the line on a surface mount indicates positive.

Look closely at all the traces, sometimes a break looks like a fiber. Plus the board has a very thick coating on it.

BTW the picture is really good on the monitor!

Pulled the old 10uf and put a spare 10uf on the board. Worked like a charm! Both monitors are up and running!

Thanks again Chris!!!

[Chris-socal]

Awesome! I was going to suggest you use one of the 10uf pulled from the board.
Great job sticking with it.

Those boards really are great to work on once you get to know them.
They will spoil you! Wait till you see a Tatung that has 40 capacitors on it! Lol

Chris