1090 Runaway Hopper Question

[BHerpin]

I have a 1090 dollar machine that I'm currently working through. Just about have everything playing as it should but now I have a runaway hopper on any payout. When it is supposed to pay 2 it just empties the entire hopper. Does the same thing on any payout. I know I have read this somewhere before but can't seem to find the information I need. Any advice? I'll post pics of the machine tonight when I get back into it.

[wolftalk]

the payout counter is not stepping up.

the 1090 is an electrically stepped payout counter, so the switches near the top of the hopper that get closed when a coin exits create a pulse that may or may not make it to the payout counter step-up coil.

if you play 1 coin, the coin unit sends that coin out pulse directly to the payout counter step-up coil.  Get that working first.

if you play 2 or 3 coins, the coin unit sends the pulse to the X2 or X3 unit, and that unit will pass it along 1/2 or 1/3 of the time.  e.g. for 3 coin play, 3 coins out = 1 step of the payout counter.

you've got a couple issues:

1] the payout counter is not stepping.  Could be the coil, the coin out switches, payout relay switch, wipers on the coin unit or plug connections in the circuit path between those things.

2] your delay relay circuit isn't working.  On games with the delay relay and microswitch cam on the payout counter, if the payout counter isn't stepping the game should shut down within a few coins. 

on the dollar and higher denomination games, dumping the hopper gets expensive to the casino, so bally set the safety timeout to be very short and added a circuit to reset the safety motor periodically if the payout counter is stepping.

[BHerpin]

the payout counter is not stepping up.

the 1090 is an electrically stepped payout counter, so the switches near the top of the hopper that get closed when a coin exits create a pulse that may or may not make it to the payout counter step-up coil.

if you play 1 coin, the coin unit sends that coin out pulse directly to the payout counter step-up coil.  Get that working first.

if you play 2 or 3 coins, the coin unit sends the pulse to the X2 or X3 unit, and that unit will pass it along 1/2 or 1/3 of the time.  e.g. for 3 coin play, 3 coins out = 1 step of the payout counter.

you've got a couple issues:

1] the payout counter is not stepping.  Could be the coil, the coin out switches, payout relay switch, wipers on the coin unit or plug connections in the circuit path between those things.

2] your delay relay circuit isn't working.  On games with the delay relay and microswitch cam on the payout counter, if the payout counter isn't stepping the game should shut down within a few coins. 

on the dollar and higher denomination games, dumping the hopper gets expensive to the casino, so bally set the safety timeout to be very short and added a circuit to reset the safety motor periodically if the payout counter is stepping.

Thanks Wolftalk. I'll look into it tonight. I did notice a couple days ago when I discovered the overpay problem I reached in there to hit the reset plunger and I touched the washer stack on the step up coil and it was very hot. Almost couldn't keep my finger on it. I'm assuming that was from the amount of overpaying though?

[wolftalk]

if the step=up coil is getting really hot, either it's stuck powered or it's pulsing a lot.

if it's stuck powered, you'll notice the smoke eventually.  The coil may or may not survive that.

if the step-up coil is pulsing but you have runaway payout, there's a mechanical issue preventing the ratchet/wipers from rotating.  Usually the torsion spring is wound on too tight.

you should be able to:

1] reset the payout counter
2] step it up once so the pawls flop down into the ratchet teeth.
3] spin the wipers/ratchet/spiral cam 1-3/4 turns with your finger, then manually push in and relese the step-up plunger until the wipers have moved past the 720/twice around/200 step point.

if you have the patience, you can just manually step up the unit 200+ times and verify the ratchet is still turning ... it's faster to cheat and spin the wipers most of the way then step up the reset.

[BHerpin]

if the step=up coil is getting really hot, either it's stuck powered or it's pulsing a lot.

if it's stuck powered, you'll notice the smoke eventually.  The coil may or may not survive that.

if the step-up coil is pulsing but you have runaway payout, there's a mechanical issue preventing the ratchet/wipers from rotating.  Usually the torsion spring is wound on too tight.

you should be able to:

1] reset the payout counter
2] step it up once so the pawls flop down into the ratchet teeth.
3] spin the wipers/ratchet/spiral cam 1-3/4 turns with your finger, then manually push in and relese the step-up plunger until the wipers have moved past the 720/twice around/200 step point.

if you have the patience, you can just manually step up the unit 200+ times and verify the ratchet is still turning ... it's faster to cheat and spin the wipers most of the way then step up the reset.

Looks like its the coil that's shorted. It shows 0 resistance when I ohm it out and I tried to jump it to get it moving just in case it was stuck but it does nothing. I'll try to replace today if I can source one locally. It's a B25-925, there is a Pinball amusement store in town that may have one. If not, looks like it's Ebay. I'll report back once I get it changed to verify that is the problem.

Oh, I guess I spoke too soon about the runaway hopper, last night I let it run for an extended period and it did eventually time out and I had to reset the machine so that is still working.

[wolftalk]

the old part number for a B-25-925 is 25-GG-7 (or CO-25-GG-7) ... it's the most common step-up coil on bally stepper units.

you got zero ohms or infinite?  Jumping to a zero ohm/shorted coil would have blown a fuse.

just to make sure, the test on a 50V coil with the thing out of the game is jump orange wire 70 on the coil to orange wire 70 anywhere handy in the machine ... like the coin diverter coil on the door.

then with one end of another jumper on yellow wire 30 on the coin switch, touch the other jumper end to the not-orange-wire-70 lug on the coil you want to test.  In this case, red/green wire 14-3 on the payout counter step-up coil.

e.g. https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/50V_Jumper_Testing.mp4