MPU BOARD AS-3356-201

[Phurman!]

Well people - here's an update on my progress of trying to solve "why" my Blazing 7's is popping a 15-amp circuit breaker.
If you have been keeping up with my attempt to get some answers and doing a lot of switching in and out of my parts and cables (and still popping the breaker).
I finally received a schematic for the game board (AS-3356-201) from a KIND GENTLEMAN "THANK YOU!"
So, I put my thinking "HAT" on  -  settled down .. and said " a KIND GENTLEMAN sent me the schematics, use them!
Took a while to study and decipher connections and symbols (couple days!). Using my ohmmeter, I found 2 Triacs (2N6070 Triacs are used in control circuits) that were shorted (schematic picture attached). I removed them. Consulted the schematics parts list to identify the part number then ordered them on eBay ($11, includes shipping-12 in a package)
Seems like they would have no effect on the operation of the system if I put the board back in.
So I plugged the game board back in - and WALA, IT DID NOT POP THE CIRCUIT BREAKER.. YaaaaY!

I was a little confused because I could plug "JUST" the board in, and it would NOT pop the breaker .. Then I would plug "JUST" the cabinet connection in, and it would NOT pop the breaker.
But when I plug both of them in together - it would pop the breaker ... That was confusing!
Thanks to the KIND GENTLEMAN "THANK YOU Again!" for the schematics.
NEXT: Waiting on the 2N6070's to arrive.
Can ANYONE tell me, by looking at the "CHIPS" that are installed on the game board - if these CHIPS are the ones that are USED for a Blazing 7's machine?

[Chris-socal]

That is an insane amount of current draw to blow the circuit breaker.
In addition to the troubleshooting you are doing verify the fuses are correct, they should be blowing long before a breaker blows.
Along the left side of the board is two rows of transistors, each probably control a bulb, put your voltmeter on diode mode and start checking continuity between the 3 pins of each. It doesn’t really matter which way you check, what matters is if you get a chirp or a reading around .56 or that range. If you get a dead short between any two pins on a transistor it is bad. A shorted transistor is far worse than one that is blown open.

Also, would you mind emailing me the high resolution image of that board? I would like to look closely at components.

Chris
yaboy@writeme.com

[Phurman!]

Thanks for your reply, Chris.
I think if you go to page 1 of this post, you should find a high-resolution image. (I'll attached a picture of what I found)
I had thought the same thing about it being a LOT of current to pop the breaker. And wondered why those fuses didn't pop (still wondering) (biggest one is 5amps)
But, after removing the Q3 and Q15 power transistors - it did "NOT" pop the breaker.
After that I wondered what would cause those to go bad... further troubleshooting revealed 2 other diodes shorted across and Q6 was "OPEN" along with RP 11 resistor bank (2 positions) had 2 - 3 hundred more ohms than the others (see attached schematic)
If you find a part number for those diodes - let me know (they are not listed in my "parts list").
I would like to repair this, but I think I may be looking for another board.

[Chris-socal]

Our last posts overlapped! I was pretty sure you were going to find a shorted triac.

Diodes have a number printed on them. Usually 1N on the first line then something like 5458B on the second line. It is common for a shorted Triac to take out other components with it….especially if a user decides to put a bigger fuse in thinking that will make it work!

Im going to be tied up most of the day but Im pretty sure we can find a good substitute diode.

You can type any known identifier into Mouser or Digikey and usually bet a hit.

Congrats on your progress.

Chris

[Phurman!]

Thanks for the info Chris👍
I'll attaché a copy of the parts list.
These Triacs are 2N6070's
Can't find part number for the diodes (listed as U5   MAD 1108) on the parts list.

[Phurman!]

OK, a little "UPDATE" here ........
I was wondering "WHY" the transistors were shorted and also "OPEN".
Upon further investigation, 3 Transistors were bad and 2 of the DIODES were shorted. (picture attached)
So I removed the diodes and Transistors and using my little digital microscope, found that the DIODES were 1N4148's. (shown in picture)
If anyone piddles in this "STUFF" ... and has some 2N6070 Transistors or 1N4148 DIODES and wish to "SHARE" - Please let me know (could use them).
I am determined to try and "FIX" this board! (may not happen ... but I'll TRY!)

[Chris-socal]

1N4148 are very common.
I don’t want to take business away from our electronics suppliers but sometimes you need something fast and Amazon to the rescue! $4.99 for 120 can be delivered tomorrow, see link below.
I could mail you some but there really isn’t much gain. I would then need to place an order to replace them. You should check every diode on the board. The triacs can short for a variety of reasons…coin under the board, someone tried to replace bulbs with it powered on, pins shorted (as has been discussed), someone replaced a component and installed backwards or there is a solder bridge.

Did you look at the schematic to see if those are for bulbs or something else that pulls more power?

I have to wonder if you will have another incident after replacing them….if you have not found the root cause.

Chris


https://www.amazon.com/120Pcs-Rectifier-100Volt-Electronic-Silicon/dp/B0DN62QFYS/

[Phurman!]

Thank you Chris ...
I "DID" order some on eBay ... $4 bucks for 10 of them (1N4148)
I have been doing a lot of "checking" for what you say "ROOT CAUSE" ... hope I don't find anything 🙏! But will keep looking.
I kind of figure there are other issues. But first steps first.
Going to go over cabinet wiring harness ... everything "lights up" when I turn on main power (nice!)
I haven't mentioned it - but I taught electronics for over 8 years while in the Air Force and really haven't done much with the knowledge until recently and it's been kind of fun.
But it also does get a little frustrating at times 🤦🤬.
Will keep ya informed .....
John

[Sunrise Side]

I would recommend removing the backplane and check for coins lodged behind it.

[Chris-socal]

Great suggestion, but I think John posted a picture of it out of the machine. Its unbelievable how many shorts are caused by coins or other metal objects floating in the machine, especially after someone moves the machine by laying it down!

When you say everything lights up, are you referring to the fluorescent and attract lighting such as behind the 25c and Bet 5 coins? Or do you mean all the buttons light up?

The buttons should not be lit up when sitting idle. Only when there is a relevant play option for that button.

Chris

[Phurman!]

Yes, I did remove everything except the cabinet harness.
The backplane had some "crude" on it, which I cleaned, and then used my little digital microscope to examine the printed circuit.
Today (because we are in a snowstorm), I will be checking the cabinet wiring harness for any "shorts" .. which I don't "think" has any (YET).
I turned on the machine (picture attached) and yes Chris, I was referring to the fluorescent lighting .. and was "VERY" happy it was "NOT" popping the breaker (big smile on my face!)
The "coin in" LED above the bill unit is not lit. Probably because I am waiting on the transistors and diodes to arrive and replace them to make the board "whole" again (here's hoping🙏).
It just dawned on me, looking at the top glass plate, (if this is the "original" glass), that this was a "PROGRESSIVE" Blazing 7's .....?
The code label on the inside door indicates it's a S5500 system ...??
Well, I'm happy with my progress so far.
THANKS to those who jumped in and made suggestions and to the KIND man and his contribution).
Looking forward to receiving those parts 

[Phurman!]

OH ........ and I "STILL" don't know what "CHIPS" are supposed to be installed in U3 U4 U12 U15 to operate a Blazing 7's
I have attached a picture of what's in there.

[Phurman!]

Well, I have been waiting for someone who "knows" about the "chips" ie: software that is installed on my AS-3356-201 board, which I am trying to repair (see previous pictures attached) for a Bally Blazing 7's slot machine (see previous pictures).
U18 and U20 are Eproms (I think) for the THEME (as I was informed) and probably have been "programmed" ...? How do I "KNOW" what they have been programmed for?
And what are U3 U4 U12 and U15 used for if U18 and U20 have been programmed ??
Should I remove the U3 U4 U12 and U15 chips to test things out ? And then re-install them if nothing works.

Looking forward to hearing from someone that has any info ... thanks!

[Chris-socal]

Unfortunately there isn’t a large pool of people with a comprehensive understanding of those game eeproms. In my opinion you rarely need to worry about the eeproms. That isn’t an absolute statement but your voltages on the board would have to be too high in order to hurt them and that rarely happens. It could, but my first instinct is to leave them in.

Here is my understanding from personal experience. A trained tech or someone smarter can please correct me:

In a typical design: 12, 14 or 24v comes to the board from the big transformer in the box. Those rarely go bad or put out too much voltage. The first components on the game board need some overhead so the incoming voltage is usually a little higher than is needed by the components.
Then on the game board there will be two voltage regulators. One regulator is the 5v line (computer, ICs, eeproms, etc), this line needs to be really clean so it is well filtered and protected.

The other i put line is for the bulbs, etc….probably 12v but sometimes 6v or 7v.
If one of those regulators goes out your periferals will have no life but the game will usually boot.

If a protection diode or rectifier diode fries you will have nothing. But rarely does the power exceed 5vdc simply because that is the regulators job. it takes in higher voltage keeps the output 5v.
The 5v circuit is usually well protected. If those game eeproms are wrong, they will not cause the game to blow a fuse.
However, if a voltage regulator or diode is shorted that certainly could blow a fuse. You can check for shorts on any 2 or 3 leg component using your diode checker. Its pretty safe to say you should never get a dead short. If you do lets talk about what it is.

Since those triacs and diodes blew I still suspect there is another component shorted. Check those VRs.

Chris

[Phurman!]

Chris, Thanks for sticking in there with me!
And thanks for the info👍
I have been doing a "LOT" of circuit tracing, particularly where the 2N6070's (Triacs) and 2 of the diodes were shorted.
Can not find any more shorted components or shorts to ground .. the only thing I found was 2 of the resistors in RP11 were about 200 ohms higher (don't believe that would cause a "BLOW OUT").
I spent some time doing continuity checks on the cabinet harness and also checking all the voltage supplies and it all looks good.
Just received the transistors (Triacs) but not the diodes yet (maybe Monday-hopefully🙏).
Guess I just have to wait on the diodes, slap everything back in and power er up! (Keeping my fingers crossed 🤞!

By the way - did you look at U3 U4 U12 U15 on my board? Any reason for them to be there? (I'm gonna do like you said "leave them in")
 

[Phurman!]

I found the cause for blowing the "MAIN" circuit breaker.
It was located in the tower. A 3-prong power plug for "Double Progressive Power" was plugged into a 9-pin plug (which could accept the "Double Progressive Power" plug). Photo attached.
I don't believe this is a "Double Progressive" machine. The front says ProSlot! Inside says S5500
However, the "Double Progressive Power" plug had 110VAC that connected to the Gry/Red wire, which connected to Plug J7 pin1 (cabinet I/O J7) on the Back Plane board causing the circuit breaker to GO.
Removing that connection, replacing the diodes and triacs, plugging the board in. Trying a RAM reset and all kinds of checks (obviously missing some procedures) .......... NOTHING WORKS!
The unit "LIGHTS UP" ... but the LED DISPLAY does not light up with anything (It did flicker while trying to find the short, when I had the power on).
I'm beginning to believe I have a "BAD BAD BAD" board. And I am in a state of "BE-FUDDLEMENT"

Anyone with suggestions are VERY welcome!

[Sunrise Side]

The 3 pin plug is to supply 120VAC for auxiliary components like a power supply to a Mikohn progressive system. It should not be connected to anything in your machine. Leave it unplugged. It's an extra only. The 9 pin is an extra as well.  Leave it unplugged. Nothing should be connected to it. My guess is that the high voltage was fed back into the MPU through the 9 pin connector which is connected to the MPU low voltage output and caused catastrophic failure. Most likely will need a MPU for a S5500. Backplane have any burnt traces?

[Phurman!]

I am "TOTALY" in agreement with you.
I "HOPE 🙏" that it did not blow those THEME chips or any other chips on the board🙏.
Would you happen to know how I would find out "WHATS" on the theme chips? Supposed to be Blazing 7's.
Or what the purpose of the U3, 4, 12, and U15 are for ? (Picture of chips attached)
I bought this machine for the kid's 100-year-old Grandmother, thinking I could fiddle with it and get it up and running. (my mistake 🤬!)
I found another AS-3356-201 board (maybe I shouldn't have) and going to transfer the chips, hoping I can salvage it .
I may be just wasting my time (I'm 88 and time is precious these days 🤞)
I really appreciate your response and confirmation (who would KNOW "NOT" to plug it in first?) (DANG IT!)
John

[Sunrise Side]

U18 and U20 are the personality chips for the theme of the game that is for the glass and strips in that cabinet. They are SMI  5962 and looking on the list it shows its for the Blazing 7's glass and strips you have. You can transfer the chips to your new board and try it. Do you see any bubbled up spots on top surface of any of the chips, U3 U4 U12 U15 U18 U20?  U3 U4 U12 U15 are the mains and readily available. The U18 and U20 and the others , if needed, you should be able to get from NLG member  RB Ronald Ball. Send him a PM if needed.

[Phurman!]

No bubbled-up chips ... and to be honest, this board "LOOKS" in perfect condition (except it doesn't produce anything! no outputs of any kind)
I have, for the last couple weeks, been doing a lot of circuit tracing, voltage checks (all voltages are where they should be!). Scrutinizing this board upside down .... !
Found 3 transistors (Triacs), and 3 diodes that were bad (they were mainly for some button lights) - replaced them, but no change to operation. UGH!
The only thing that seems to work is the RESET LED - when power on "it blinks" hold reset button "it will stay on". Even the ERROR LED display doesn't light up or show any errors -nada, zilch, zero, and it would flicker when I was trying to find that "SHORT" .. so I'm assuming it's good.

I guess I'll continue with some more circuit tracing - might come up with something...? Who know?
Stuck out here in Colorado with subzero weather, so might as well work on this instead of spending time "WATCHING TV" ...UGHhhh!