Need a little help with my new machine..

[MadMaxx123]

So I have just picked up my second Bally machine.. Crazy Bars manufactured by Bally Ireland in (I think) the 1970s.
First thing I have had to do is drill the locks and have pulled out the princely sum of 12 pence.. New locks arrive tomorrow 
I have a few wiring/coil issues to resolve... handle release coil does not fire when a coin is inserted but the coin microswitch is good and i hear another coil fire when the switch is triggered. Handle release coil looks to have been replaced before but need to check it..
Has anyone got any good tips on stopping coil buzz? A couple are very loud, especially the ones on the hopper..replace, think layer of felt or rubber on the coil head to stop the metal to metal contact?
Can anyone point me to a suitable wiring schematic?

Thanks in advance..

[wolftalk]

I don't have any docs for 1200+ model games.

however, I have a Y chromosome, so I have to come up with something - relevant or not.

ignoring the coin changer, the game itself looks pretty simple, so it's likely that paperwork for a similar slot would be helpful.  There was a model 1071 crazy bars that was mentioned as being an export for australia ... so I don't have that paperwork either.  However, paperwork for something like a 1090 can be useful ... poke around in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ ... schematics are w-1046-xxx files.

if you want to email as many highest possible resolution pics of the game front and internals as possible to slotpics@cdyn.com, I'll add them to the above.  Especially useful would be all sides of the reel mech and hopper, any board in the top compartment and the hopper and inside the cabinet with the reels/hopper removed.

if the game supported multiple coin denominations and unlocked the handle appropriately to give the right number of spins for whatever coin was played, the circuits get more complicated.  If the thing just has a coin changer and the slot itself takes/pays 2p coins, then getting it going will be a lot simpler.

coil buzz is usually caused by one or more of:
- dimples being worn into the relay armature plate by the nubs on the coin top.  You can sometimes pound the dimples out with a hammer/anvil
- worn nubs on the coil top - occasionally filing the nubs a little to flatten them helps
- excessive "up" tension on switch blades ... lighten up the tension while making sure the armature still travels up to the physical limit.   Note the switch blades provide most of the force lifting the armature up .. the spring just helps a little

for a buzzy coin lockout coil or coin diverter, sometimes you just have to try and find new parts.  The classic hack of putting tape or whatever on the armature plate or coil top to dampen the vibration will last for quite a while tho, and when it wears thru you replace.

[MadMaxx123]

Thanks,

I have sent over a block of pictures with more to come...

First thing I have hit is a CINCH Jones socket that appears to be giving bad contacts... This one is on the hopper.. When i wiggle the hopper the coin lockout solenoid triggers for a time.. could be momentary or until I move the hopper again..
On my other machine I had to completely desolder the socket on the reel mech, disassemble it, clean and adjust every contact and then put it all back together.. That one works flawlessly now... So this may end up getting the same treatment...
Once I have the lockup solenoid working as it should I will move onto the handle release.

The real tapes show AUS on them... possibly one originally intended  for Australia?

[wolftalk]

m-220-[1788,1789,1790] were used on the 1071-1 "crazy bars"

it's common for bally to recycle a game design into a later model number with a different type of cabinet - or in this case, an added coin changer.

the schematic for the 1071-1 is w-1046-1784 - which I don't have.

the schematic for model 1075 is w-1046-1787, so the games were designed around the same time and it's likely the main part of the circuits is very similar.  The 1075 schematic is in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/1075/

wrt the beau plugs, usually you can get away with cleaning off the male pins and ignoring the sockets except to verify no pin got pushed back that should be flush with the surface.
I use a wire wheel on a dremel to clean the pins.

if you have heavy oxidation in the female sockets, you can find small brushes/files you can get in there or try something like deoxit ... or even wetting the male pins with isopropyl or electronics cleaner (like mass airflow sensor spray) and inserting/removing the plugs a few times to scrub out the female side.

[MadMaxx123]

Well I have cleaned the pins on the hopper and all the other contacts I could find. I have used a diamond contact file on the socked, sprayed it down with contact cleaner and toothpick style q-tips (they were black)..
Still have issues...
if I wriggle the hopper the coin lockout solenoids on both the change unit and main coin slot flick on for just a second and if I close the front door or push against the coin hopper handle firmly, the coin diverter solenoid flicks off.. I checked it wasn't the weight switch on the hopper being triggered and it's not...
All the contacts in the socket look straight, so looks a lot like contact issues to me...
Not sure how to proceed short of pulling the socket apart like I did with the last one...

[David Walz]

Well I have cleaned the pins on the hopper and all the other contacts I could find. I have used a diamond contact file on the socked, sprayed it down with contact cleaner and toothpick style q-tips (they were black)..
Still have issues...
if I wriggle the hopper the coin lockout solenoids on both the change unit and main coin slot flick on for just a second and if I close the front door or push against the coin hopper handle firmly, the coin diverter solenoid flicks off.. I checked it wasn't the weight switch on the hopper being triggered and it's not...
All the contacts in the socket look straight, so looks a lot like contact issues to me...
Not sure how to proceed short of pulling the socket apart like I did with the last one...

Post pictures it will help out.
I am no expert, however I have a few Bally and the number one issue that I find is a lot of the switches are bent, tweaked, not making the proper contact. I end up taking the switches off and straighten them ou, cleaning th ear m.

[MadMaxx123]

Well I have stopped the coin diverter solenoid turning off when I close the door by adjusting the coin level adjuster screw... it was set on a hair trigger so I just backed it off a quarter turn and that's stopped it..
I have cleaned and checked every contact on the hopper and they are all good and working as they should... Yet still the coin lockout and arm release solenoids will not behave. I have checked them and they are all good (unlike the payout relay that is unravelling but still works)..
so gunna have to try and run through a continuity test now I think...

[wolftalk]

the sequence after a spin/payout is done is typically:

1] insert coin (or manually operate the coin switch) and the coin relay on the left side of the reel mech should trip.  You'll know it did if the "coin accepted" light turns on.
2] handle release relay trips so you can spin.

you can divide this operation into two phases:

a] hold coin switch trip wire down and the coin relay trips
b] let the tripwire go back up and the handle release relay trips


if your game is one coin play, that's about it.    After the coin is played, the coin lockout coil should power and more coins put in get rejected back to the tray.  In that case, the 1075 schematic is not ideal as it has a line unit relay and stepper unit which you won't have.  However, the circuit to trip the handle release relay is likely the same or very similar.

if the coin lockout coil is not powering so the game is rejecting all coils. fastest thing is remove the coin mech and stick voltmeter probes on the coil terminals to see if you have 50VAC.

so ... is the coin relay tripping?

[DavidLee]

Not sure where you’re at with the lock out coil problem.

Sometimes the wiring from the door to the cabinet needs attention.
Generally the plugs and the loom that rest on the edge of the door.

Look for plugs that have dark burned marks and underneath the wire loom for worn broken wires.
These situations are rare, but do occur.

In your next posting please include what problems still exist.

[MadMaxx123]

The door has a chain to stop it opening too far... have checked the door wiring and all seems good so far..
The problem I am having is...

The coin relay on the side of the reel mech trips when you flick the coin switch but the handle release does not fire, in fact nothing happens.
The coin lockout relay never fires before you insert a coin or after play has ended... But if i gently thump the hopper mech the coin lockout relay momentarily fires before inserting a coin (as dose the coin lockout on the change mech)... I just can't get it to fire and stay on when insert coin is lit.. (well at all)..
If i manually trip the handle release I can pull the handle and it will play (even pay out if I win) but the coin lockout solenoid never energises after.

I have cleaned the male contacts on the hopper and reel mechs to within an inch of their lives, the contacts in the sockets have been cleaned with a diamond file and contact cleaner more than once.. wiring on the hopper and reel mechs has been checked and is all good (even when moving it around to trey and find any breaks)..

Trying to fault find without a circuit diagram is tough but not impossible.. It's just going to take time...

I get the process, it's not much different to my early machine... except this one has a number of anti-cheat systems. It has an anti cheat relay on the hopper and one on the reel mech, a door switch, etc.... my older machine has none of this.. not even basic shields to stop the old coat hanger tricks..

So until I understand where the anti-cheat relays come into the circuit/process I'm possibly misdirecting my efforts...

[wolftalk]

wrt the handle release relay, the circuit is similar in all the bally slots.

if you have an alligator clip/jumper wire:

1] attach the clip to one of the switch blades on the dashpot switch (vertical switch near the air cylinder on the right side of reel mech).  This switch should be closed.

2] hang the other end of the jumper out the front of the cabinet and put the reel mech back in.

3] when the coin relay is tripped, do you have 50VAC on the jumper wire ... other voltmeter probe on orange wire on a coil like the diverter coil on the door.

4] if you don't have 50VAC, touch the jumper to the yellow wire on the coin switch.  Does the handle release relay trip?

[MadMaxx123]

No 50V on the dashpot switch but if I touch the pumper wire to the yellow wire on the coin switch the handle release coil energises...

[wolftalk]

okay, below is a typical handle release circuit.  You're may have more switches, but there's not going to be much left.

on the below schematic, if the game pays the yellow highlight is ok and the problem could only be the payout counter switch or plug connections (hopper or reel plugs) because you've shown the green highlight is ok.

if your dashpot switch has white/orange (57-1) and white/red (51-1) wires on it, you've got a chance the circuit is the same.

put your jumper on 57-1 on the payout relay switch and see if you get 50VAC there ... if not, try checking voltage on brown wire 60-1 on the mating blade on the payout relay switch.  You can also touch the jumper end to yellow wire 30 to confirm the circuit is closed from your jumper to the handle release coil.

if your wire colors are different on the dashpot switch, what do you have ... and does one go to a same color wire on a payout relay switch (check for almost zero ohms)?

[MadMaxx123]

Wires are completely different colours. I have continuity tested the whole hopper and reel mechs on the bench and all contacts, switches, etc are working fine..

But.. I am kinda getting somewhere....

After cleaning and checking everything again I am at a point where when insert coin is displayed and I thump the hopper the coil lockout solenoid will energise momentarily, same for the change coin lockout solenoid (I assume they are powered from the same circuit).
If i trip the coin switch, the coin relay energises but no handle release.. however, if I thump the hopper then handle release energises...
If I try thumping the reel mech nothing happens in either scenario..

I'm thinking bad connections still in the plugs and sockets...Specifically the hopper...
I should have done a pinout of the hopper and reel mech plugs while I had them on the bench, so I could focus on the pins for coil lockout and handle release specifically....

[wolftalk]

Wires are completely different colours. I have continuity tested the whole hopper and reel mechs on the bench and all contacts, switches, etc are working fine..

ok, but what are they?  Given the wire colors on the dashpot switch, it's possible to match to a schematic better because bally usually used the same wire colors in the same circuits on different models.

how did you continuity test?  If you just buzzed, that only proves you have some low resistance path between the two probes.  How low makes it buzz depends on the meter, and it may not be the path you want ... could be a roundabout path thru the transformer and coils. 

even if you get a buzz or checked for almost zero ohms, connections may not work.  The problem is the meter is using a tiny current that will get thru a poor connection easily.  Try and pull a lot of current thru the path to fire a coil and it may not work if a poor connection limits the current. 

you see bad connections as voltage drops in closed circuits, so the most reliable test is get the circuit in a state you think is a closed path and measure voltages (typically one probe on orange wire on any convenient coil and other probe in the circuit path).

in any case, the circuit to the handle release almost always goes thru a payout relay switch unless you have one of the oddball games with a replay register and collect button.  If your payout relay is on the hopper, then either the switch or the hopper plug connection is is likely the issue if thumping the hopper makes it work.

[MadMaxx123]

Apologies, dashpot wires are yellow/brown & blue/white..

So I used a meter on continuity to track the circuit path from one component to the next. I then checked the resistance of each coil (not conclusive I know but tells you if it is open or shorted).
Once I was happy with each circuit I used my variac to power the circuit and check voltage along it's length.

What I have notice this morning is that a couple of pins on the bottom row of the left hand reel plug are loose and can slide in almost 1/16th of an inch.. the loom holds them out so unless you press on the end of them you wouldn't know.. Not totally convinced this is the problem as there is still more than enough to make a good contact but I need to address it at some point...

But having cleaned the hopper socket again using the contact diamond file, contact cleaner and pointed qtips (that came out black which I assume is carbon from arching or just years of dirt)... It's getting better... Change coin lockout is now working... main coin lockout is buzzing like a wasp when insert coin is lit and looks like it is still not getting enough current to lock on hard enough to let a coin past.. Same for the handle release when i flick the coin switch.. if I wiggle the hopper slightly both will momentarily lock hard.. Need a new coin lockout coil....

This is almost the same issue as my other machine (which is over 10 years older)... Maybe we didn't have such good maintenance routines over here or our arcade environments were just disgustingly dirty...

[wolftalk]

there's a few different styles of beau plugs.  One of them a bakelite back and on those the female guide pins are sunk in and have some movement. 

the flat pin female side from what I recall is flush to the surface or slightly recessed.

the almost never fail beau plug retains the pins with e-clips.  Other types flare the ends to lock them into the housing.

in any case, if you are getting flaky behavior and the pins are not pushing back in the housing (or are broken/have no clamping force), you may have to get in there with a solvent cleaner like mass airflow sensor spray and ideally find a small enough brush/file to scrub off your crud.  Usually cleaning the pins is good enough because the female ones get scraped by the insertion.  If that's not working,  spray something like isopropyl alcohol on them and the socket and remove/insert the unit a few times to scrub the female pins flushing off the pins in between ... repeat until the female pins look decent.

[MadMaxx123]

Think I am almost there...

I now have a few consistent issues regardless of moving the hopper, etc..

The handle release coil is wrong... it's been replaced in the past and comparing it's stated values to those shown in the manuals it has a significantly higher resistance and so is just not quite strong enough... I have a replacement good second hand one arriving tomorrow along with a new coin lockout coil from a company in Holland...  The nylon bushings for the reel gears have failed and the gears are pretty sloppy.. I have ordered replacements but they will not be here for a week or so... So I decided to machine up some brass replacements over the weekend..

Hopefully this weekend I can solder in the new coils and give it a good test...I'll let you know...

Thanks for all the help...

[wolftalk]

huh ... what coil was on the handle release and what did you replace it with?

when you jumped wire 30 into the circuit, the handle release tripped and jiggling the hopper also made it trip, so that implies the coil was powerful enough ... tho I guess the thumping may help and bypassing some switches with a jumper to wire 30 will probably allow a little more current flow.

[MadMaxx123]

It had a KKN336 and I have replaced it with an  F-31-2100. Handle release works perfectly now...
I also replaced the coin lockout coil as it was buzzing very loudly.. New one is quieter but still too loud for me... So I need to see what I can do about that...

But apart from that it all works perfectly!!!

I have given her a good clean inside and out... found a few coins wedged behind the transformer from 1971.. probably been there since the year it first went into an arcade..
I have also loaded it with and set it up to use stainless tokens, it was originally set to use UK 2 pence pieces which are copper (copper plated steel nowadays ) and make your hands very dirty.. The tokens are all but the same dimensions (all bar a souple of thou ) so i just needed to tiny adjustment on the coin mech and the hopper worked without any adjustment... And now hands stay cleaner..

Thanks again for all the help... I will email over high res pics and anything else you think maybe usefull...