IGT S+ lights up but LED doesn’t (update: Did set15, DBV mostly works!!)

[jay]

Good Morning,

Sorry I have not chirped in earlier. I am out camping today in crownland (that is Canadian speak for off the grid government land in the wilderness) and have been being conservative with my batteries. I had a meeting today so popped up the StarLink and fired up the laptop.

On eBay - just do a search for Mikohn.
Your looking for a ChamII+
Here is a link - this one doesn’t appear to have a meter but some of the pics show ribbon cables so who knows if the seller has one available.
https://ebay.io/m/6BDBKJ
Also - I know nada about this seller, so feel free to vet the sellers on this forum (in another thread please)
I have seen these things go From $50-$250

With regards to the IGT ones - I have never seen them on eBay and I don’t ever really remember seeing them in the casinos either - so the number that are in the wild are probably fewer. I would call the vendors listed on our home page and ask if they have any - be specific that your looking for the one for S+ as IGT does have a different model for the S2000 that was popular.

Mikohn was bought by PGI - Progressive gaming international - who was later gobbled up by IGT for the technology now used with the S2000 IGT board.

Just as an aside - The vendors on our home page do not pay for banner ads. They are just the known good ones that either participate in our forum or generously help out our NLG members.

I don’t have any ChamII boards - I had once thought about building one into a topper but I never got any further than buying the topper and then went down the road of the older stuff. I also bought a con2 (non I edition) found out I needed an I version so I handed mine off to Joey to resell.

[jay]

This just popped up on NLG for a meter.
/nlg/index.php?topic=49176.msg261675;topicseen#new

This is not what your after. But you asked what the meters looked like.
This is a 16" x 4" board that connects to a Cham44 - the Cham44 connects to a CON1 and is fed by a 2 wire RS485 connection.
This meter can be dasiy chained to additional meters to form a 1 x 2 (1 high 2 wide), 1x3... all the way up to a 1x16
Or 2 x 1, all the way up to a 2x8. There is a maxium number of 16 boards supported by the Cham44.
The only restriction is that you need the right chip for the Cham44 that matches the display length and height.

Another member by the name of Wes Goodie and I hacked the Cham44 board. He had a 1x3, I had a 1x10 and a 1x2.
While the firmware was not quite the same we did a comparision of the binary dumps and found a couple of bytes that differed between the chips that seemed to correspond to the number of boards. With a hex-editor and an eprom burner we were able to change the length of the sign. I stumbled across the byte to expand this to two lines high but trying to get it to do 3 or 4 tall were unsuccessful as was getting this to be longer than 16 panels. 

If your looking at other cool things to do with your machine beyond progressives - have you heard of tournament mode ?

First you need the right chipset for your game and there are limited themes for which these work.
You can go to the IGT Game Bible (again I refer you to the Ricks FAQ section) and it lists which themes support it.

When you have a set of tournament chips you can leave it in regular mode or flip it to one of the two tournament options.
One option is for timed play - no coins required - your given xx seconds on the timer which I believe is counted down in the coins played display. Person with the highest Win count wins the tournament. The other mode is your given xx credits and you play until they are exhausted again with the WIN count being the determining factor.  You get to set the XX for either time or coin count.

If your also not aware your S+ can morph from any theme to any other theme. Your 2 coin Double Diamond can become a 5 line, 5 coin Gold Mountain... just need the right two chips + Glass and Reel Strips (called a game kit). Once again refer to the IGT Game bible for specifc chips needed.

[Kfrankie]

Well boys, I got that set chip15 today for the bill validator and put it into the MPU board. No response on the LED. Reinstalled it in the other direction.  Also no response on the LED.  Pressed the test button multiple times and no response on the LED.  As an added bonus, when I took out my sp-809 game chip, a couple of the pins got bent. Probably because it hadn’t been removed in 34 years.  I very carefully adjusted them and put the chip back in.  Thankfully everything appears to be working correctly so far.  Some lessons were learned here.  First off, don’t risk breaking your entire machine just to install some shitty bill accepter that adds nothing. Also, leave it to the pros, because nothing is ever easy in this field.  Not screwing with it again. Thanks everyone for your help again.  Toodles.

[jay]

You should not be so hard on yourself. This stuff takes a bit of learning through trial and error. None of us on this site are professionals.
My electronics background is founded on that all electronics are run by smoke, and when the smoke comes out the electronics stop working. 

You can get a chip extractor that lightly grips the entire chip just above the legs and you pull up straight. I have not had much luck with these.
Most of us use a small flat head screwdriver and insert it between the chip and the socket and gently move it up and down.
Then we repeat on the opposite end, and again at the other end - not sure if this is the best technique but when it starts to lift I twist the screwdriver to increase the lift without leveraging it out. In the slot world one other site coined the term "The Brotherhood of the bent screwdriver"

The chips themselves have either a knotch or a small hole on one end of the chip. This lines up with the knotch in the chip socket.
If you put the SET chip in backwards then its fried. So you need to watch the direction. Time to order another SET chip (aka don't give up).

[Kfrankie]

Thanks for the kind words Jay, but I think one of those pins on the game chip is going to snap off of I remove it again. And I’m sure I’ll never be able to find a replacement sp809, so best to quit while I’m ahead. Is it even possible to replace those little pins on a game chip?

[jay]

The chips are 27C256 or 27C512s fairly common.
If you have the binaries (chip contents) you can easily burn a fresh chip.
The only time I have ever attempted to save a broken leg is when the chip is original and I have not backed up the contents.

I do so by carefully soldering on a thin piece of wire and then sticking the end of the wire into the bread board of the eprom reader/writer. I then copy the contents and write them to a new chip.

You can buy an eprom burner off of amazon for about $30. Of course there are some professional ones that can go for thousands but for this hobby you don’t need anything like that. If you don’t want to go down that road many of the members here can burn you a new chip. Like I pointed out there is the IGT game bible in Rick’s FAQs and if you want to change themes, or payback %% you can simply change your reel chip. I would offer to do it for you but being in canada shipping cross border is stupid expensive. The 49th parallel is better known as the 49dollar parallel. After paying for shippping there are brokerage fees, duty’s and taxes.

The S+ platform is a tank, hard to permanently break, lots of parts in the wild, and a great community to help you along the way. The one word of advice is not to leave your machine alone in the dark. They tend to multiply and you will soon find out that you have more slots than available space. This mirrors my parenting advice where I advise new parents to never let them out number you.

Enjoy !

[Kfrankie]

Funny that you say that about leaving the machine in the dark. In the past six weeks, I bought four slot machines. Gave one gave to my mom (Bally e-series 1348 quarters). One was a piece of junk, bally 2209 that I had to end up throwing away. The third is a Budweiser themed pachislo, which my wife is making me sell now. And this one I get to keep, the red white and blue S plus. I’m pretty sure I bought all of the decent slot machines in the state of Maryland at this point, and my wife is going to kill me if I get another one anytime soon. Needless to say I’m looking…

[Kfrankie]

Jay- I’ve been informed by a very benevolent member of this board that I do not need to worry about damaging my sp809 chip because my machine is a common red white and blue slot, and it’s a game type 0. And that there’s a very common chip that will work with my machine, even though I have a very specific dp809 eeprom chip. I assume that “common” chip is also going to match my pay tables which are 1000, 2400, 4800, and 10,000.  While trust I am being told is accurate, the wise man always gets a second opinion because things are always more complicated than they appear. And perhaps I think your opinion could be educational to others who have the same question. Do the common man really need to worry about having a unique chip because his machine is 35 years old, and that does he need to be extra careful about damaging his chip because he may never find another one? And can you send a link to an eeprom writer that I could purchase so don’t buy the wrong one? Ad always. You’re wise counsel is greatly appreciated, as is the assistance of my benevolent board contact.

[jay]

If you review a PAR sheet associated with your Reel chip. It will specify a TYPE.
Type 0 is the most common kind of game meaning no special features.
Double Diamond is a TYPE 0 game but Double Diamond Deluxe is a Type 2 which is a nudge game.
When a diamond falls above or below the Pay line it will nudge up or down to the payline depending on which way the diamond is pointing. Now the point of this explanation is to say the same Type 0 game chip
Would work for your red white and blue as well as double diamond and many other games. About 75% of games are Type 0

Some game chips handle multiple TYPES. Like a 1271 does type 0 and Type 2 along with several others.
You could easily swap your 809 for a 731 or 1271 and not notice any difference.
1271 and 731 are the two most common game chips.
What I learned from this thread is that the 809 can have a hopper limit of 0 - effectively rendering it coinless while the majority of the other chips can only go down to 1.

The 809 is not as common as the 731 but it would not be hard to replace either.

I am presently camping at Waterfoul lake in Banff National park and just working off of my phone via vi Starlink. I will fire up the computer tomorrow and do a search for a burner. Many of our other members are more technical than I and have wider experience with burners and might want to jump in here with their recommendations.

[Kfrankie]

I have a type 0 game based on the LED settings, reel type 3501.  Have the PAR sheet too, given to by a member a couple weeks ago.  I guess I can answer my own question- I assume the reel chip determines the payouts/jackpot amounts and winning combinations, and the game chip (sp809) determines the odds and other things like sounds/music.  My machine has reel spin and coin drop sound effects, but no “music” so to speak. The game chip is somewhat common, or a couple others will work (as you said).  I assume the same goes for the reel chip? 3501

[sixcardmark]

Yes SS3501 is 95% payback: /igtbible/IGT%203%20Line/Game%20Library%20-%20S-Plus%20-%20Red,%20White%20&%20Blue%20(3%20Line).htm

Also notice that if you swapped to a 98% SS7679 eprom you would also have to swap out reel strip #3 to pay correctly.(ABC vs ABD)

[jay]

Per your last post.
Think of the game chips handle multiple as the OS - operating system of the machine.
The reel chip is associated with the theme and controls %% payback.

I really encourage you to look at the IGT game bible. You can look up your theme and see what chips are available for your theme. You will see that many have multiple options with different pay back percentages.

You also mentioned music. The music is contained in the game chip but it’s up to the reel chip (theme) to call it. If the theme doesn’t support music it doesn’t matter if it is in the chip or not,

The 731 game chip I mentioned earlier was later replaced by 1271 as a “Nevada regulatory” change. The 1271 has many more statistical counters than the 731 and to make room for this the music had to go. Aka  while a 1271 can replace many of the earlier chips you lose the capability of the music. Reel spin noises remain.

While your machine is operating- and with the door closed. If you turn the jackpot reset key your machine pops into statistics mode and you can observe the various accounting stats. Things like games played since the last door open, coins in, coins out, winner paid, total games played, paid percentage etc etc etc.

[Kfrankie]

So I found a three pack of chips sp731, set15, and a RAM clear chip on eBay for $30.00.  Going to give this thing another shot.  As Bill Shakespeare once said “Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.”  And now I know how to fix it if I screw it all up.  So where do I get these game kits?  I saw a great video on YouTube with a guy changing out a later version of an S+ or an S 2000, look like a pretty neat way to avoid buying a machine. Can’t find a kit on eBay though, I guess some guys around may sell them?

[sixcardmark]

Is the RWB tall intermediate cabinet the only s+ ya got?  It is very hard to find kits for them.

[Kfrankie]

Is the RWB tall intermediate cabinet the only s+ ya got?  It is very hard to find kits for them.

Yes, she’s the only one I got.

[Kfrankie]

One more thing to mention as I’m continuing to resolve and upgrade things.  When I initially bought the machine, and set it up in the garage, I noticed there was an orange rubber like substance that had dripped down off the real crank mechanism and into the escape hole for the coins.  The substance is no longer dripping, so it’s like cranking it up for the first time and who knows how long melted some of it causes to drip and now it’s not a problem. I’m wondering if the substance was for the purpose of lubricating that mechanism in there? have you ever seen anything like this?

[Kfrankie]

2nd pic of rubberized orange substance. This shows a vertical view of the substance.  It doesn’t appear to actually be in the crank mechanism, but it’s dripping down the sides of the interior of the cabinet and the plate holding the crank on it. I’m thinking this has something to do with an electrical issue? Why else would you apply a rubberized substance into a machine like this?

[shortrackskater]

It's the dreaded orange goo! 
 


It's from a seal and hydraulic fluid that eventually degrades the seal. This was a dampener to make the handle go up and down with "shock absorption."
The pros will respond soon with more information. 

[Chris-socal]

Just to be sure this isn’t a simple oversight. On the bottom of the cabinet there is a screw that is intended to retain the MPU once it is in place. If it is screwed in before you mount the mpu the mpu cannot fully seat.

I did my best to point an arrow, the screw is below my arrow. Forgive me if this is old news, I didn’t read all the responses.

Chris

[Kfrankie]

Just to be sure this isn’t a simple oversight. On the bottom of the cabinet there is a screw that is intended to retain the MPU once it is in place. If it is screwed in before you mount the mpu the mpu cannot fully seat.

I did my best to point an arrow, the screw is below my arrow. Forgive me if this is old news, I didn’t read all the responses.

Chris

Thanks for the response. The problem ended up having nothing to do with the boards, it was the top 6 amp fuse screw cap not properly holding the fuse in place.  Once I replaced the screw cap, the LEDs came on and it was a simple matter of a couple programming steps to get everything working the way it should.  Mostly everything at least. No trying to get the external bvr-200 working and determine whether some leaking orange goop from the handle cylinder area is a problem.