Author Topic: 200 coins when jp is 400 or more. (Read 18186 times)

jimliner · « **on:** August 06, 2016, 02:52:35 pm »

I have a 956 just about complete. There has been one issue I have held off. Now is time to address.

Triple Bars on all three reels. Refer to belly glass.
One coin played, award is 200 coins - correct.
Two coin played, award is 400 coins - only 40 paid.
3 coin played, award is 60 coins - only 60 paid.
4 coin played, award is 800 coins - only 80 paid.
5 coin played, award is 2000 coins - only 100 paid.

Now every other possible pay is correct.
Double bars on all three reels for 4 or 5 coins played it pays 200 coins b/c jackpot is 400 or more. Then I use reset key and coin once to reset machine for next play. As it should be.

Not sure why triple bars are not paying 200 and requiring reset/sir prize.

Any ideas, i don't want to break something in process of trying to fix another.

Thanks.

ricker · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2016, 05:11:38 pm »

Hey hey,

I use to dabble with em's. I am sure a pro here will chime in. Based on your post the 2-5 coin triple bar is paying the same as a mixed bar. Reel wiper alignment, checking that the tabs rest on center of the buttons. Hopper payout disc alignment, same with tab locations, taking note of location after bad payout versus good one of 200. But since all other payouts are good, a step-up unit signal or wire signal = solder points need a look.

Good luck,

Richard

p.s. Is there only 1 triple bar per reel? lf not, try other combination and check payout.

Amechanic · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2016, 06:12:48 pm »

Your 100 and 200 coin payout wipers on the hoppers payout board are located on the corners on the board.. They each have separate wiper fingers that are adjustable by loosing the 2 small screws holding them in place.. They are located on the plate, that's above the spiral cam.. If you could post a couple pictures of your hopper, maybe we can see something?

Gary

jimliner · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2016, 07:14:04 pm »

Thanks guys. I will check all the things that you mentioned. Tomorrow I will post a couple pics.

I read pages ~ 198 - 203 of the Bally's Owner Pictorial Guide. It explains the 5 coin multiplier pay out circuits. If you hit "any bars" theres a relay that cuts switches for 3 of a kind bars. My 956 has the bank of plastic relays. One of the 4 or 5 is not original. I didnt have 956 schematic used a 809. The odd relay has the coded wires similiar to what 809 showed. Going to pull it tomorrow and see if there is any change. Maybe locate 2bar relay and swap them and see two bars acts like whats currently happening w/ 3bars.
Thanks. Jim

Amechanic · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2016, 09:15:02 pm »

Check the voltage on that different color relay and conpair it to the others. I have a 955 and a 962, so I don't think either of those are helpful. Maybe the 955 since its a 5 line 5 coin machine. It might have the same relay banks as yours? Post the pics and I can compare it.

Gary

Jon · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2016, 02:34:05 am »

My first guess if you have to hit the reset key to insert a coin and it pays out exactly that payout it is in Jackpot lock up and it puts out that number of coins for that payout the attendant would have to pay you the difference
The machine would not be able to do to 800 coin payouts for 2001 payouts in a row that's why they have the jackpot lockup if you hit the reset key and it functions properly or all but Ripple bars above one coin I am guessing it is the way it is probably wired Without You original singer Siri she's a very hard call who gets the wiper board The Hoppers and it the 40 60 and 80 terminals on it I would guess it is right

jimliner · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2016, 02:47:56 am »

Hi Jon. I might not have described sitution well.

On the two double bars jackpots that are 400 or more coins the machine works fine. It pays 200 coins and locks up. To play again (after attendant pays remainder) reset key must be turned and coined.

Triple bars, 400 or more should be the same. For now, not.

Jim

Jon · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2016, 02:59:17 am »

Hey Jim take a picture of the hopper pay board and post it for me or send it to my email I have seen many machines wired that way my 955 does the same thing I have a matching set of them

jimliner · « **Reply #8 on:** August 07, 2016, 03:02:04 am »

Getting ready to take pics now, well after coffees done brewing. Thanks.

Jon · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2016, 03:47:00 am »

Had my first cup of coffee at 4 a.m. sharp

jimliner · « **Reply #10 on:** August 07, 2016, 04:42:46 am »

Here are some pics. I pulled out lowest relay and 3 of a kind 2bars acted like whats happening with 3bars 3 of a kind. Pulled one relay at a time . One relay, couldnt coin machine another machine died during pay coyld nt reset till relay was put back in. Marked relay positions then swapped jackpot relay for one that didnt allow coining. Back to 2bars good. 3bars same, no 200 coin on 400 or more. Now thinking problem maybe elsewhere. In bookit mentions switch on hopper that directs 200 coin for 400 jp that works through jp l/u relays.

Jim

jimliner · « **Reply #11 on:** August 07, 2016, 06:12:44 am »

Ok. Just made things worse. Cleaned switches in stacks back side of hopper. Lowered payout disc to reach front stack.

Now any bars three of a kind start payout but then out meter stops mid stream and hopper runs on. Stop with coin in switch before hopper empties or timer kills it.

Need to step back for a couple hours.

DavidLee · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2016, 08:59:06 am »

Hello Jim,
It's time to get the continuity meter out, sounds like a loose connection since moving the step unit.
Or the contact cleaning got something out of alignment. Once I thought I had cleaned some contacts really well, but until I put the meter on them, I found there was no continuity.

jimliner · « **Reply #13 on:** August 07, 2016, 09:22:45 am »

Thanks Dave. I am going to check continuity on switches I cleaned first. I was no worse prior to cleaning them. Thats when all pays caused runaway. I will say for now lowering payout disc assembly didnt hurt anything. But look at that next. I did lower again to check for any obvious damage.

jimliner · « **Reply #14 on:** August 07, 2016, 05:44:05 pm »

Ok. Checked continuity on payout relay switches that i had cleaned. Found one that had no continuity when closed. Cleaned with contact cleaner till repeated good continuity when closed.

Now back to where I was. Which is ok. For now. All pays are good except for 400 or more on triple bars. 2 bars of 400 or more pay 200 and require reset & coining of machine. Going back to book and schematics.

Jim

jimliner · « **Reply #15 on:** August 12, 2016, 12:48:49 pm »

Ok. I have gone through schematics, 809. Bally manual and the Bally Pic Guide. I have a reasonable understanding of how pays 400 or more work. Dont have machine specific schematic. But set up 2Bar-2Bar-2Bar 5 coin play. Checked continuity from reel 3 gray wire from reel 3 to 2 to first reel. Wanted to check on winning jackpot that works.

Once I went through reels, left one lead connected to reel 3 gray and checked pins on both reel mech beau plugs.
Only two pins had continuity with 90 on 3rd reel wiper board.
Next, I am going to see where those to beau plug pins go to. Also going to set up 3 triple bar jackpot greater than 400 and see if same two pins have continuity since pay out should be the same 200, as double bars.

DavidLee · « **Reply #16 on:** August 12, 2016, 01:03:53 pm »

Jim,
There is a 400 contact strip on the payout step up?
Check where it's at when the machine stops paying.
If the contacts have ran off the metal receiver strips,
the balance might of been paid by an attendant.
Have a couple of machine that are this way.
Then the machine needs to be reset or trip the coin in switch.
Glad you found the contact that was dirty.
I've assumed contacts were clean, but the meter doesn't lie.

jimliner · « **Reply #17 on:** August 12, 2016, 01:19:30 pm »

Hi Dave. Machine is set up (schematic) any pay 400 or more, jack pot relay switch, set up counter and x's unit set up 100 coin pay with jackpot relay forcing a x2 pay. Glass and schematics show that jackpot of 400 or more/ 200 paid by machine, balance paid by attendant. Then hold reset switch with key and coin machine to reset.

There is only a 100 and 200 strip on hopper pay board.

jimliner · « **Reply #18 on:** August 12, 2016, 01:34:07 pm »

Comparing to 809's schematic vs this picture from Bally guide has one discrepency. But shows how 200 coins are paid for all jackpots over 400. Keep in mind jackpot switch bypasses X's units and forces 2x pay. 100 tab on hopper powered.

OldReno · « **Reply #19 on:** August 12, 2016, 10:15:17 pm »

Hi, the 809 and probably your machine had TWO jackpot lockup relays, #1 and #2. One is for the double bar pays and the other is for triple bars IIRC. Double and triple bar pays are the only 2 kinds that meet the requirements of jackpot payoff.
And yes you are absolutely right, the 100 coin pay segment on hopper and the X-2 unit are what make that payoff. You should pay attention to seeing if the X2 unit is working on your triple bar Jackpot pays. It is supposed to. Watch it during those pays,

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Author Topic: 200 coins when jp is 400 or more. (Read 18186 times)