Inoperative 831

[jeng212121]

I am try to get a grip as to why my 831 3 reel quarter machine is not working.
  First off, it was working fine when I bought it a couple of weeks ago...........it started with the quarters were sticking in the coin slot......I decided to wash all the quarters.  Next I decided to wd 40 lube the coin slot and from there I decided to just clean the inside up.
  When I removed the coin rejector, a odd shaped plate came un lodged and it was, no place to go.....it looked like it was stuck somehow to the coin lockout magnet, but was not sure.  I call a guy in and he told me to try the slot without the plate......he said that the plate was only to reject the 3rd 4th etc, coins.  That did nothing, all this time, I am not getting any power to the so called coin rejector OR the micro switch that senses coin drop.  Prior, I was able to flick the little wire and it would sense a coin drop.
  All in all, when I manually trip the handle, the wheel spins, and the reels lock up...........nothing else.


  I know it is kinda a laundry list, but would really appreciate any help to this old man trying to pass the time of day with my slot machine

[wolftalk]

have you checked the 8 amp fuse yet?


what's the complete model number on the plate on the cabinet side below the handle?


got a voltmeter and comfortable poking around with it?  Have the schematic?


there's not a lot of circuitry in that game, so getting the coin switch to cause some relays to operate shouldn't be too bad.


the guy was right about the plate that pivots in front of the coil lockout coil.  If you leave it out, the game will accept coin when it shouldn't, but it's otherwise harmless to ignore that right now.

[jeng212121]

First off, thanks for the reply.......


  I am not that well versed in using a voltmeter, but I can do simple things with it.  The 3 fuses that are located on the deck of the slot are buss and they checked okay with a meter.


 the s/n and the model number is a mystery, cause there is no plate on the side of the machine, no markings with a sharpie in side, someone wrote 822 on the panel in the upper cabinet with the 5 vertical rows of bulbs ( the 5th row was removed)
 
printed on the graphic on the very edge of the between the 25 cent marking and the coin slot is Las Vegas Nevada.....on the opposite side is a marking J an T indust.  I can't do pic to post, but I can email pics, so if you would like I can do that.
  All the lights work, I replace all inop bulbs and even replaced the 5 w starters (3)
 
  Yes, this machine does not have very much if any circuit boards....mostly everything is just  wires.


 

[wolftalk]

wrt machine id, there's a few numbers scattered around that may help:


- back of reel glass - G-349-xxx
- stamped into the slotted metal index discs next to the reels - p-x84-yyy, where x is probably a 4
- whether the bottom glass says "bally" or the name of a casino, and a number on the back
- part of the printed circuit trace pattern on the payout disc on the hopper - usually m-645-xxx
- there's numbers on the paper reel strips, but those require looking at the paper behind the overlap on the top of the strip, so that's when things get desperate.


usually the differences between machines within a major model are minor, but not always.


anyway,
grab your meter and stick on probe on orange wire 70 on any of the coils.  The coin diverter coil under the mech is probably accessible.  Stick the other probe on the yellow wire on the coin switch..  Got 50VAC?


move probe from yellow wire to orange/green wire on coin switch.  Still 50V?


move probe from orange green to blue/yellow and push down the coin switch wire.  50V?

[jeng212121]

I found a M number M-65-118....the 8 looks like a 3 and another 3 is reversed to look like an 8, so I guess it's a 8.


I put meter on the orange wire on the coil and I touched he yellow wire on the micro....got 50 v.....from there I touched the wire in the middle the coin switch...... got 50v.........I touched the wire to the right.....got<10v


the email prior to this one, you mentioned about a 8 amp fuse............is that one of the fuses mounted on the deck?


thanks again Wolftalk

[wolftalk]

if you got 50V on the coin switch, your 8A fuse is good.


when probing between the orange wire 70 and the coin switch terminal that you got <10V on (probably  a blue/yellow wire), you need to hold down the coin switch trip wire.  The coin switch connects the yellow wire 30 to one of the other two terminals depending on whether the trip wire is up or down.


if you get the <10V no matter what you do with the trip wire, the coin switch may be bad.  You can use a jumper wire to briefly touch the yellow wire to the <10V wire and see what happens.  If you still get nothing, the problem is likely a switch on the handle release coil.


you can find a schem for one version of the 831 at http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/831 ... probably not your machine but the circuit you care about is likely the same.  if you aren't a schematic guy (yet), yell and some incomprehensible explanations will follow.


what's supposed to happen assuming you've previously pulled the handle and reset the coin relay and handle release coil assemblies :
1] a coin pushes down the trip wire
2] the coin relay trips, line unit relay and line unit reset coils power. 
3] when the coin switch trip wire return to the top, the handle release coil trips.


you should hear that ... since you don't, either a switch is open when it shouldn't be or you didn't notice.  It may help to remove the top glass so you can hear/see if the line unit reset relay is doing anything.

it's possible to get the machine is a state where pushing down the coin switch trip wire does nothing, but pulling the handle should return both the coin relay and the handle release relays to their untripped positions and flipping the coin switch down and letting go should make those relays trip (trip = flop down and stay there ... they get mechanically reset/latched up by the handle pull).

posting pictures here is done using the green "attachments and other options"  below the text entry box. 


the M- number was on the printed circuit board on the hopper?  That should be M-645-something.  Unfortunately if it is M-645-118, that doesn't match to the 831 models I have info on.

[jeng212121]

I did the 50 v test on the micro....the left 50v.....the middle 50v....the right is < 10v.  The handle is locked and nothing......I touch the middle term and the right term (all this is happening with meter on the orange wire on coil) and you hear a coil being activated.....with that, I am able to pull the handle and the reels spin and lock up.
 
  No lights or indications of coin drop or sound






  The micro trip wire is not sensing a coin drop manually........and the coins are just dropping into the tray.


 

[DavidLee]

If jumping the switch releases the handle. Check the terminals as there very light wight and could be separated. If okay, try making  a low tech adjustment on the coin switch.
Using the plastic end of a screwdriver like a hammer give the switch a swift tap a few times.
 If you had the hopper and or reel mechanism out of the machine. Try pushing them in a little more and or give them a nudge left to right while pushing inward. Also try holding the switch down and slightly move the wires in the door near the hinges.

[jeng212121]

I did jump the micro middle wire with the right wire and it released the handle and got power to the coil and micro............I was only able to pull the handle but nothing else.  I than took the back of the screw driver and gave it a couple of raps......everything started to work, not in sequence, after a couple of manual coin trips to the tripwire, everything came back. 


  I still don't know how the metal piece that was attached to the coin coil was attached......was it magnetically held in place?. The coin coil does no have any magnet power....is it bad and needs replacing.


Dave and wolftalk.............................

[DavidLee]

If you’re referring to the the small coil behind the coin mechanism. The narrow end without the 90 degree tab, slides into a slot on the left side of the coin mechanism housing. "The grey metal box." The tab points into the machine. There is a small screw and plate retainer, then the spring is connected. It might work once you get this armature in place. Any missing parts might be in the machine, a good flashlight and small magnet may assist in finding them and any other small parts floating around.


Glad you got the machine to work again.

[jeng212121]

David


This piece of metal is kinda hard to describe, when it came dislodged, the left side of the metal piece slid out of a slot (rather large slot) on the back it shows distinct marks as to where the coil magnet was somehow attached, as a matter of fact, when I did finally had to remove it, it was kinda stuck to the coil. That is the reason I believed it was magnetized to the coil.....


  I did find a small spring, with loops on each end....the spring is about 1/4 inch long......I did not see/find any other pieces (retainer or screw).  would you have any idea how that would go?

[jeng212121]

I found out how the lockout coil plate belongs..........it is installed with the opposite end with the 90 degree bend into a slot on the left hand side of the box on the door.  What makes it stay in place is a very small spring ( 5/8 long x 1/4 inch in dia.) that one end slips over a stud and the other end slips over the plates protrusion......the spring provides the tension to return when it is energized.
 
 

[jeng212121]

David


This piece of metal is kinda hard to describe, when it came dislodged, the left side of the metal piece slid out of a slot (rather large slot) on the back it shows distinct marks as to where the coil magnet was somehow attached, as a matter of fact, when I did finally had to remove it, it was kinda stuck to the coil. That is the reason I believed it was magnetized to the coil.....


  I did find a small spring, with loops on each end....the spring is about 1/4 inch long......I did not see/find any other pieces (retainer or screw).  would you have any idea how that would go?

Truly appreciate your help

[DavidLee]

I believe there suppose to be a small plate with 2 machine screws to hold it in place.
This plate is only 1/4x3/8 and usually dark in color.


The lock out plate has a short notch on the top left side. This pushes up into the slot and locks it in place.
Below there’s 2 screw holes to attach the plate. This little plate keeps the armature in place and from falling downward.

[wolftalk]

here's pictures of what davidlee described.


often the top plate with the two screws barely holds in the armature plate .. or doesn't really.  The spring will keep the armature in place and if it wobbles some no big deal.


the point of the assembly is to let the tab on the armature poke into the coin mech when you want the coin to reject, and the coil pulls the armature back from the mech when you want the tab out of the coin path.

if your coin switch is flaky, sometimes you can take them apart and clean the contacts.  The one in the pictures below will come apart.  If it's riveted closed or fused plastic, squirting in denatured alcohol or an electronic cleaner (like mass airflow sensor cleaner for a car) if you can get fluid in someplace, shaking and draining it back out will clean the contacts well enough.  Let the solvents evaporate.


you can also buy another switch ... probably costs less than buying a specialty contact cleaner :-)

[DavidLee]

Yes, this is the retainer I mentioned. Thought it was under the armature holding it in place, my mistake.
If its missing, you could fabricate one.


Most likely the switch will keep working. Check the clearance on the wire between the guide slot.

[jeng212121]

Thanks you guys.........that is exactly the plate I was trying to describe.......I have it in place and it's working.


 If I keep getting quarters stuck in the path, It seems about 1 out of very 5 quarters are getting stuck an I have to use the button to clear.          I tried to spray a minimal amount of wd 40, but that didn't seem to work, and I really don't want oily quarters. Can I adjust the thickness screw a tiny bit to let the quarters go through without so much jamming?

[DavidLee]

The coin mechanism has a magnet mounted into a spring loaded door.On this door is a small adjusting screw, could be hexagonal or slotted.Try turning it inward 1/8 turn. Make note of the starting position.See if this helps. 


Also lubricants eventually accumulate dust particles which could effect the functionality of this mechanism.
When cleaning the coin mechanism, compressed air seems to work best.
Check any areas where the coin comes in contact with the unit for residues, oil, coke, tar, etc.



Photo of adjustment screw, your mechanism might vary as to the screw location.

[jeng212121]

After making note, I proceeded to take 1/8 turns clockwise........it really didn't make much difference, the coins still stick so I decided if the coins return with the return button, I may as well leave it alone.


  I did however have another problem with the plate is reinstalled........with it in place and seated correctly, the coin now drop straight to the tray.....I looked and looked at the path, looked to see what would make it drop straight to the tray? 


So again, I took out the plate everything worked fine..........I am going to leave the plate out till ?


I am happy right now that it is working..........


thanks Dave

[DavidLee]

If you moved the screw back to its original position. Try 1/4 turn in.
It appears that the coin lock out coil isn’t energizing.
This pulls the armature back allowing the coin to past over the switch wire.
I believe there’s a common orange wire and a yellow/red on the coil.
Inspect the solder joints. You can briefly jump a yellow wire to the yellow/red to test the coil.
The armature plate will have to be in place or a screwdriver held over the metal core.
Screwdriver is easier as it allows you to see yellow/red and where the jumper wire is at.
The coil core will pull metal objects toward it, indicating it works.