Bally 1114 coin blocker

[David Walz]

Wolftalk I need your help again regarding the 1114 $1 slot machine.
The coin blocker solenoid is still chattering when I pull the handle and spin the reels. Other than that it doesn't power up and down chattering when sitting idle.
Everyone needs to know that I raised this machine from the dead, rusted, water logged 1114.

[crayw]

I have used electrical tape to quite the chatter. Light sanding the areas of contact may solve the problem. Or you can remove it as a last resort.

Good luck,

Ray

[David Walz]

I have used electrical tape to quite the chatter. Light sanding the areas of contact may solve the problem. Or you can remove it as a last resort.

Good luck,

Ray

Nope, it's very important to function 100%, this part blocks out the coins, clears the çoins. Every slot machine that I own is 100% correct. This problem is not a big issue, Wolftalk can get me pointed in the right direction like he's done several times before.

[wolftalk]

david means the scavenger solenoid (coil with plunger), which is different from the coin lockout relay/armature used on games with smaller/lighter coins.

it's kinda doing the same thing as the coin lockout relay, but the logic is backwards.  The scavenger solenoid is powered when the game does NOT want to accept a coin.

during a spin, the scavenger solenoid will power while reel mech C-4 switch with yellow(30) and yellow/red (31) wires is closed.

usually the problem is a loose/worn coil stop or plunger, but if the thing is not buzzing when you have max coins in before the spin (or when holding the handle down during a spin), then it should just be the C-4 switch arcing.

tmi:

"chatter" usually means the coil is being powered/unpowered rapidly, commonly due to arcing of a switch in the circuit and the solution is cleaning/adjusting the switch.

"buzzing" on a solenoid can be a number of things:

1] worn coil stop
2] worn plunger end
3] excessive force wanting to pull the plunger out of the solenoid coil
4] wrong type of coil stop when the coil is in an AC circuit
5] loose coil stop
6] broken coil stop

excessive tmi:


the goal is for the solenoid plunger to suck into the coil and sit squarely against the coil stop.  The problem in an AC circuit is the voltage/current in the circuit is sinusoidal, so it's varying smoothly between a positive and negative value 50-60 times/second.  When the voltage/current is near zero, the magnetic field holding the plunger in the coil is weak/gone, and the plunger will want to pull out.

an AC coil stop deals with this by including a "shading ring" in it's design - typically a copper plate.  The idea is the magnetic field in the coil induces a phase/time shifted current in the shading ring and that current maintains a small magnetic field to hold the plunger in when the main solenoid field is unable to do so.

if you have a dc coil stop without a shading ring, every time the voltage/current is near/at zero the plunger starts pulling out of the coil and then yanks back in again when the voltage/current gets higher.  Since it's doing that 100-120 times/sec, the rapid jackhammering of the plunger sounds like a buzz.

having rambled all that, usually the problem is the plunger is not seating squarely on the coil stop and the varying magnetic field causes the plunger to shift around and make the vibrating noise.

crayw's suggestion of electrical tape works on a relay armature by basically sticking a sound-deadening pad on top of the relay coil. The armature plate is still rocking/shifting around, but you lose the buzz because it's not metal-on-metal anymore.  Eventually the tape wears thru and you need to replace it.  The "correct" fix is get rid of dimples worn in the armature plate (whack it with a hammer on an anvil), file off wear on the coil top, replace the armature plate and/or coil.  In practice, you just swap the worn parts onto a relay that isn't held powered so you never hear the buzz.

rarely you have to replace the relay frame due to wear at the armature pivot points.

do not do any sound dampening tricks in a solenoid - eventually the tape will come off the coil stop and likely jam the plunger in the sleeve. 

 
 

[David Walz]

david means the scavenger solenoid (coil with plunger), which is different from the coin lockout relay/armature used on games with smaller/lighter coins.

it's kinda doing the same thing as the coin lockout relay, but the logic is backwards.  The scavenger solenoid is powered when the game does NOT want to accept a coin.

during a spin, the scavenger solenoid will power while reel mech C-4 switch with yellow(30) and yellow/red (31) wires is closed.

usually the problem is a loose/worn coil stop or plunger, but if the thing is not buzzing when you have max coins in before the spin (or when holding the handle down during a spin), then it should just be the C-4 switch arcing.

tmi:

"chatter" usually means the coil is being powered/unpowered rapidly, commonly due to arcing of a switch in the circuit and the solution is cleaning/adjusting the switch.

"buzzing" on a solenoid can be a number of things:

1] worn coil stop
2] worn plunger end
3] excessive force wanting to pull the plunger out of the solenoid coil
4] wrong type of coil stop when the coil is in an AC circuit
5] loose coil stop
6] broken coil stop

excessive tmi:


the goal is for the solenoid plunger to suck into the coil and sit squarely against the coil stop.  The problem in an AC circuit is the voltage/current in the circuit is sinusoidal, so it's varying smoothly between a positive and negative value 50-60 times/second.  When the voltage/current is near zero, the magnetic field holding the plunger in the coil is weak/gone, and the plunger will want to pull out.

an AC coil stop deals with this by including a "shading ring" in it's design - typically a copper plate.  The idea is the magnetic field in the coil induces a phase/time shifted current in the shading ring and that current maintains a small magnetic field to hold the plunger in when the main solenoid field is unable to do so.

if you have a dc coil stop without a shading ring, every time the voltage/current is near/at zero the plunger starts pulling out of the coil and then yanks back in again when the voltage/current gets higher.  Since it's doing that 100-120 times/sec, the rapid jackhammering of the plunger sounds like a buzz.

having rambled all that, usually the problem is the plunger is not seating squarely on the coil stop and the varying magnetic field causes the plunger to shift around and make the vibrating noise.

crayw's suggestion of electrical tape works on a relay armature by basically sticking a sound-deadening pad on top of the relay coil. The armature plate is still rocking/shifting around, but you lose the buzz because it's not metal-on-metal anymore.  Eventually the tape wears thru and you need to replace it.  The "correct" fix is get rid of dimples worn in the armature plate (whack it with a hammer on an anvil), file off wear on the coil top, replace the armature plate and/or coil.  In practice, you just swap the worn parts onto a relay that isn't held powered so you never hear the buzz.

rarely you have to replace the relay frame due to wear at the armature pivot points.

do not do any sound dampening tricks in a solenoid - eventually the tape will come off the coil stop and likely jam the plunger in the sleeve.

And that's why I called you for help. I'm going to copy your information and systematically go through the problem. You're probably correct about wear and tear, this 1114 has been through a rough life previously.

 

[David Walz]

Well, today after all of the BS going on lately in my life, I spent some quality time on the 1114. The switch on the C4 was pretty much the issue. Using varying degrees of threats to the switch,  it finally complied and  we're back normal. 

The hopper knife was just one of the issues of why the coins were getting stuck coming out of the hopper, as well as having to straighten out, adjust, a couple of other things that prevented the coins from flying out of the hopper like a bat out of hell. Thanks to Alan from K-LAR sending me a $1 knife. 

[DavidLee]

Just fixed a buzzing lock out coil on a quarter machine.
The contacts on the c switch were too wide to make a good connection.
When adjusting contacts there should be a slight push back on the opposing side.

[David Walz]

Just fixed a buzzing lock out coil on a quarter machine.
The contacts on the c switch were too wide to make a good connection.
When adjusting contacts there should be a slight push back on the opposing side.

With $1 coins it creates the coil to cycle repeatedly since the contacts were not making 100% contact.