Bally 1114-37 Reel issue

[Phan000]

Just got home his machine.  Biggest obvious issue is that the first reel is firing too early.

Happens intermittently, but sometimes two times in a row.  Reel stop kicks off almost instantly without letting reel 1 spin.

[wolftalk]

one of:

- it's kicking a little early before the reel 1 latch pawl is engaged - try shifting the L-shaped stop bracket at the bottom/right side of reel mech forward a little bit

- the timer/latch link is in the wrong hole - latch links are under the reels and connect the front shaft to the release pawls

- release pawl for reel 1 is cruddy or worn so the reel 1 index arm doesn't latch on the little ledge until the link pushes the pawl forward to release it.

there's a bad video at https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/Latch_Link.m4v that kinda talks about how it works.

there's an assortment of even worse video if you poke around in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/

[DavidLee]

Since the problem is intermittent a good cleaning should be done.
As the location of the 1st reel mechanism is in an area that’s not easy accessible.
Soaking the mechanism down a few times during the day a with penetrating oil and leave it sit over night.
Apply penetrating oil in the morning to work out the grim. Then oil with light weight oil.

[Phan000]

I tried moving the L bracket.  Didn’t seem to help.  But I’ve had trouble getting that part oriented correctly before, so I only made tiny adjustments.

The timer links were in holes 2,3,4

I moved number one to spot 2, and the problem was solved… sort of.  Now reels 1 &2 fire almost at the same time.  Better than reel one not functioning,  but not correct.

The mech is fairly well greased.  No caked on old grease.  If anything, maybe too much fresh grease in places.

[wolftalk]

assuming the reel 1 and 2 latch links are the same length, then they can't be in the same link holes or the reels will lot more-or-less index at the same time.

since the penalty for having the L-bracket toward the front too far is the handle sticks down and you don't get a kick, one way to test is winding up/kicking the reel mech outside the machine to make sure you get reel 1 latching before the kick.

other option is make sure you have a long screwdriver/rod that you can push the release lever that is hitting the L-bracket in case the handle is stuck down.  There's other ways to release the handle, but I find poking the release lever the easiest thing.

of the L-bracket seems to be correct, then the other possibility is a roll pin connecting the clock to the shaft is cracked or you have a clock gear problem so when the kick happens the latch link shaft jerks back instead of slowly moving at the rate the clock fan is supposed to be enforcing.

suggest ya hold the fan and pull the handle so when it kicks the fan should almost immediately stop the link shaft.  If it doesn't, that's a problem.  If the clock does hold the shaft but reel 1 indexes, the pawl is not engaging the reel 1 wiper arm - usually because the L-bracket is too far back so the kick happens before the reel 1 arm is latched.

could also be wear on the latch pawl, but in that case typically rarely works right.

[Phan000]

I tried moving the L bracket,  right up to the point of not releasing.

Still intermittent early misfire on reel one.

I then replaced the clock &  issue persists.

I don’t see any obvious cracks in the shaft. Maybe something is loose or worn past tolerance?

[wolftalk]

I'd look at the reel mech outside the machine.

1] verify the latch links (yellow highlight 20 below) are the same length for reel 1 and reel 2.  I mean the link bar itself ... reel 1 should be connected in the second hole and reel 2 in the 3rd hole from the end.

2] look at the ledge on the latch pawl for wear (22/red highlight) and make sure the pawl pivots easily.  Gunked up grease will make it not

3] verify the toggle links (43/blue highlight) are not installed upside down

if that all seems ok, I'd remove the reels and wind up/kick the mech by pushing the U-shaped bar going into the air cylinder.  Grab the fan so the mech doesn't unwind and look at what the reel 1 link and pawl are doing.  The index arm should be pushed back all the way in the slot in the top plate.

if the reel 1 index arm is latched, compare the force needed to push on the bottom of the pawl to release it to the same on reel 2.  If barely nudging the pawl releases the index arm, either the pawl is not engaged very well or there's wear on those parts.

if really stumped, try swapping the parts between reel 1 and reel 2.  It's a bit of work to slide out the shaft you need to remove to get the pieces out (45 on diagram), but it gives ya the chance to clean all the old grease off.  iir, you don't need to disassemble the entire reel mech, but you may have to remove some things to be able to slide out the shaft.

the diagram is from the 5000 manual for dollar slots.  If your game is quarters, the mech is pretty similar.

[Phan000]

After putting this project on the back burner for a while,  I’m ready to get back to it.

Haven’t gotten back inside the bottom of the the reel mech,  but I did notice that the piston and it’s bracket binds a little at the end of the stroke.

Piston itself is clean,  tube is well oiled and clean.

What could cause it to hang at the far end of the stroke?  This happens in or out of the machine.

[wolftalk]

got a picture and/or video during operation of the right side of the reel mech?

the shaft could be adjusted too long or the big gears aren't meshed correctly.

[Phan000]

Seems like I had neglected some grease build on the backside of the gears.  After some cleaning, the plunger & arm are returned normally.

I checked all the areas in the diagram posted above.  Cleaned, no change.

So I kinda gave up.  Moved the first reel to number 2, moved second reel to number 3.

Set the third reel variatior to its longest position, and removed the latch arm.

Reels now stop in the correct order & problem solved.

Thinking one of the parts mentioned earlier is out of spec, but not easily seen.

[wolftalk]

the dashpot switch behind the air cylinder is not adjusted correctly.

the thick blade in the middle is supposed to prevent the left blade from moving too far right when the peg on the frame allows the right blade to move backwards.

put another way, the contacts are supposed to be what's touching in the position shown in the pic.  The right blade should never hit the thick limiting blade. 

right now, your circuit is completing thru the limiting blade and the middle of the moving blade.  Could work for years that way ... or arcing/bending can weaken the moving blade and it snaps.

wrt to the latch links, notice at around 1:10 into this video:
   https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/Latch_Link.m4v
how much the latch links kick forward before stopping when the fan is being held.  That movement amount is the slop in the fan gears and other connections in the various linkages and pins. 

you can kinda get a feel for timing from this video:
   https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/Windup_Kick_Clock_Side.mp4
however, the video is a 5 reel slot, so reel 1 will typically spin a little longer on a 3 reeler before latching.