G23 rebooting

[Gasman]

Hi Everyone,
I'm having troubles with a G23 that gets up to the AVP screen, sits there for a minute, then reboots. The recent history with this machine is it was working fine until the large battery on the vertical board died. Yes, I don't know all the board names yet, still learning.   Well, when removing that board the ribbon cable connector just fell apart.  Ordered new ribbon cable, seems to work ok for a while then doesn't want to boot up to any menu, even with the diagnostic and Ekey installed installed.  I had a spare power supply so I changed it just in case the old one is having issues.  I also checked the small CR2032 on the CPU. It measures 3 volts but, it's getting replaced as long as I'm in this far.  I'm almost ready to start drinking while working on this machine. The other thing I noticed is this has a MLD monitor.  The touch screen doesn't want to calibrate all too well.  I found a usb cable from the monitor that looked like it had been pinched in the door at one time so, I replaced that cable....didn't make a difference.   I will try to add photos tomorrow from my pc, this cell is poor at adjusting photos down to under 1K, which is what the forum wants.  Any help is appreciated.   I'm still learning  so take it easy.....Thanks.

Bob


I see most of the pics are sideways but you can see what I'm working on.

Those bottom pics look to have fuses or at least look that way7 with F1, F2, & F3.........are they fuses or ?

[sccarlso]

Hmmm, hard to say when you say "vertical board" and things like that.  lol  But it sounds to me that you just had a battery die, and it hasn't been replaced, or the machine hasn't yet had the NVRAM and SafeStorage cleared, which you have to do anytime a battery dies or you replace any of them or it will usually hit a red error screen or just reboot itself over and over until this is done with the diag key.

By the "large" battery on the "vertical board", is in the cabinet, that's not one inside the brainbox correct?  If it's a board in the cabinet itself, I don't know why you would need to remove the whole board.  It's basically just a 3 volt NiCD battery pack that old school cordless phones use with just two wires, + and - (can be a little more voltage, but should say on the battery) connected with a small two pin connector to the board.  You don't need to remove the board to replace it.  This is the "Telltale" battery.

You can get an NiMH battery of roughly the same size and voltage, and simply solder the connector to it, plug it in, and now it's an improved NiMH rechargable battery and will last for ages.  The "Telltale" battery is just so it can log if the cabinet was opened when power was disconnected from the machine.  If that battery dies, the machine will tilt specifically for "Telltale battery".  But even old ones will usually recharge enough if you just plug in the machine for a few days.  Doesn't need to be even powered on, just plugged in. Even if powered off, you should leave the machine plugged in, then it charges that battery and doesn't drain it.

The other batteries should be replaced in the brainbox if you haven't already and know for SURE they are relatively new.   Two CR2450's in the PCI card which is inside the brainbox that has the ribbon connector.  And the bios battery on the motherboard, simple CR2032 battery.

Make sure it's all back together and the ribbon cable is connected securely from the brainbox to the backplane board in the cabinet, and all other cables are properly connected.

G23 touchscreens don't use USB, they use serial.  Thus, the DB9 serial cable that connects to your brainbox is for the touchscreen.

The USB cable is for your button deck.  So if your buttons work, that USB cable is fine.  It just connects from the button deck controller to any USB port on the backplane.

With that checked, when you power on, the fans should spin up and you should hear a clear "beep" from the brainbox indicating it did a successful POST.  It booted properly...  If you don't hear that little "beep".  Something is still not right with the brainbox, power supply, a bios chip is bad, memory not fully seated.  Standard PC diagnosis applies.  It "beeps"" just like any desktop PC does when it boots successfully.

If you hear the "beep", great!  Power off and make sure that:

1.  The main door is open.
2.  The lower belly door is open
3.  The funny hook shaped pressure switch behind the metal door on your brainbox doesn't have a piece of paper wedged in it.  That's the "Cage door".  A diag key won't boot it that has a piece of paper wedged in there, or the belly door switch isn't being seen as open.
4.  Ekey and diag key are plugged into the two "secure" USB ports behind that metal door, nowhere else.

Now if you power on and hear the "beep" from the brainbox about 5 sec after power on.  It should boot the diag key.

If not, there are still issues with the brainbox itself.  Successfully booting with the diag key is the test that the machine is generally ok hardware wise, and you can use the diag to check hardware and voltages with it.

If it boots with the diag, check your voltages in the diagnostic menus for any batteries that are under 3v.  All at least 3v?  Good!  Now go to the NVRAM menu and clear ONLY NVRAM and SafeStorage.  Don't select the third checkbox to wipe the hard drive!

Once it completes.  Quit and it shuts down, power off at that time so it doesn't reboot immediately.  Remove the ekey and diag key and then power back on normally.

Machine should now boot up eventually to "No Games Enabled". 

Plug in your ekey and complete basic machine setup, and reenable your games.   Remove the ekey when done, and close up the maachine, including putting that piece of paper back in that's behind the metal door on the brainbox, and close the belly door, and the main top door so all switches indicate closed on the top right of the screen. 

If you set everything properly, the machine should function normally again.   When any battery dies, that's general procedure to restore a machine.  If any tilts show up after that, they can be addressed individually.  But you shouldn't have any more random reboots.

[Gasman]

Hmmm, hard to say when you say "vertical board" and things like that.  lol  But it sounds to me that you just had a battery die, and it hasn't been replaced, or the machine hasn't yet had the NVRAM and SafeStorage cleared, which you have to do anytime a battery dies or you replace any of them or it will usually hit a red error screen or just reboot itself over and over until this is done with the diag key.

By the "large" battery on the "vertical board", is in the cabinet, that's not one inside the brainbox correct?  If it's a board in the cabinet itself, I don't know why you would need to remove the whole board.  It's basically just a 3 volt NiCD battery pack that old school cordless phones use with just two wires, + and - (can be a little more voltage, but should say on the battery) connected with a small two pin connector to the board.  You don't need to remove the board to replace it.  This is the "Telltale" battery.

You can get an NiMH battery of roughly the same size and voltage, and simply solder the connector to it, plug it in, and now it's an improved NiMH rechargable battery and will last for ages.  The "Telltale" battery is just so it can log if the cabinet was opened when power was disconnected from the machine.  If that battery dies, the machine will tilt specifically for "Telltale battery".  But even old ones will usually recharge enough if you just plug in the machine for a few days.  Doesn't need to be even powered on, just plugged in. Even if powered off, you should leave the machine plugged in, then it charges that battery and doesn't drain it.

The other batteries should be replaced in the brainbox if you haven't already and know for SURE they are relatively new.   Two CR2450's in the PCI card which is inside the brainbox that has the ribbon connector.  And the bios battery on the motherboard, simple CR2032 battery.

Make sure it's all back together and the ribbon cable is connected securely from the brainbox to the backplane board in the cabinet, and all other cables are properly connected.

G23 touchscreens don't use USB, they use serial.  Thus, the DB9 serial cable that connects to your brainbox is for the touchscreen.

The USB cable is for your button deck.  So if your buttons work, that USB cable is fine.  It just connects from the button deck controller to any USB port on the backplane.

With that checked, when you power on, the fans should spin up and you should hear a clear "beep" from the brainbox indicating it did a successful POST.  It booted properly...  If you don't hear that little "beep".  Something is still not right with the brainbox, power supply, a bios chip is bad, memory not fully seated.  Standard PC diagnosis applies.  It "beeps"" just like any desktop PC does when it boots successfully.

If you hear the "beep", great!  Power off and make sure that:

1.  The main door is open.
2.  The lower belly door is open
3.  The funny hook shaped pressure switch behind the metal door on your brainbox doesn't have a piece of paper wedged in it.  That's the "Cage door".  A diag key won't boot it that has a piece of paper wedged in there, or the belly door switch isn't being seen as open.
4.  Ekey and diag key are plugged into the two "secure" USB ports behind that metal door, nowhere else.

Now if you power on and hear the "beep" from the brainbox about 5 sec after power on.  It should boot the diag key.

If not, there are still issues with the brainbox itself.  Successfully booting with the diag key is the test that the machine is generally ok hardware wise, and you can use the diag to check hardware and voltages with it.

If it boots with the diag, check your voltages in the diagnostic menus for any batteries that are under 3v.  All at least 3v?  Good!  Now go to the NVRAM menu and clear ONLY NVRAM and SafeStorage.  Don't select the third checkbox to wipe the hard drive!

Once it completes.  Quit and it shuts down, power off at that time so it doesn't reboot immediately.  Remove the ekey and diag key and then power back on normally.

Machine should now boot up eventually to "No Games Enabled". 

Plug in your ekey and complete basic machine setup, and reenable your games.   Remove the ekey when done, and close up the maachine, including putting that piece of paper back in that's behind the metal door on the brainbox, and close the belly door, and the main top door so all switches indicate closed on the top right of the screen. 

If you set everything properly, the machine should function normally again.   When any battery dies, that's general procedure to restore a machine.  If any tilts show up after that, they can be addressed individually.  But you shouldn't have any more random reboots.

Yes, my board Identification is bad but will improve over time.  the board with the yellow handle that pulls off the backplane.  I will go down and fight more with it tonight.  Is there a correct a correct diagnostic drive to use on G23?   I have many versions from 113 through 127?  And Ekey 7 is the right key drive?   I know Ekey 9 is for the later machines like S3000, etc.  I have 29 machines in the basement (my retirement).  I spend more time working on them than playing them but, its slowly start to change.

Thanks for the detailed reply!!!

[sixcardmark]

You need eKey7 & diag 14-21.  PM if interested in diag.

[sccarlso]

Yep!  That's what you need! 

And the yellow handle means it's a G23 v2.  If there's no yellow handle it's a v1.  If you did slide out the board with the yellow handle, do make sure the connector on it is fully seated back in place.  Seen that happen on occasion where a pin or two had intermittent contact after removing that board and it didn't get pushed in fully, and crazy random things would happen.  Once it was reseated in the socket that it plugs into, all was fine again. 

If you have a bunch in your basement, before you work on any of them.   Plug them in for a few days before you do, and that will usually recharge the "Telltale" battery enough (the big one in the middle of the board with the yellow handle).   I don't know what their "lifetime" is.  But for a machine that's just plugged in and not powered on.  Even really old ones usually hold enough charge to not cause a tilt unless they've been unplugged for a longer period of time. 

And with a lot in your basement.  You should likely change the battteries in the brainbox.  Two in the PCI cards, and one on the motherboard as you probably don't know when they were replaced last.  You don't want to have to do this kind of thing again anytime soon, so replacing those batteries in the brainbox is cheap insurance.  With new ones installed they should last quite some time.

Each machine needs two CR2450's for the PCI card, and one CR2032 battery for the motherboard.

Might as well buy a big pack of them on Amazon.  They're cheaper in a bulk pack if you'll use all of them.   

[Gasman]

Yep!  That's what you need! 

And the yellow handle means it's a G23 v2.  If there's no yellow handle it's a v1.  If you did slide out the board with the yellow handle, do make sure the connector on it is fully seated back in place.  Seen that happen on occasion where a pin or two had intermittent contact after removing that board and it didn't get pushed in fully, and crazy random things would happen.  Once it was reseated in the socket that it plugs into, all was fine again. 

If you have a bunch in your basement, before you work on any of them.   Plug them in for a few days before you do, and that will usually recharge the "Telltale" battery enough (the big one in the middle of the board with the yellow handle).   I don't know what their "lifetime" is.  But for a machine that's just plugged in and not powered on.  Even really old ones usually hold enough charge to not cause a tilt unless they've been unplugged for a longer period of time. 

And with a lot in your basement.  You should likely change the battteries in the brainbox.  Two in the PCI cards, and one on the motherboard as you probably don't know when they were replaced last.  You don't want to have to do this kind of thing again anytime soon, so replacing those batteries in the brainbox is cheap insurance.  With new ones installed they should last quite some time.

Each machine needs two CR2450's for the PCI card, and one CR2032 battery for the motherboard.

Might as well buy a big pack of them on Amazon.  They're cheaper in a bulk pack if you'll use all of them.   

Oh yes, I have replaced the big telltale battery because that would go dead in less than a week.  That's what started this. The cr2032 will go in tonight. 2 CR2450's?   That sounds like a WMS board.  Where are they at on this G23?   Yes, these games are always popping up with weird problems but I'm slowly getting them fixed up. I did reseat that board a couple times, it's just fighting.

Bob

[sccarlso]

There are two battery carriers for the CR2450's in the top of the PCI card inside the brainbox.

The NVRAM chips are on that PCI card.  So if their voltage drops below 3v (might allow it to go a bit lower).  But if it does, it corrupts the NVRAM, and the machine will never boot properly again until they are replaced and the NVRAM is cleared. 

Will usually give a blue or red screen error referencing NVRAM, or just keep rebooting itself.   But even if an error screen says it's recoverable and to just turn the key, it's not...  It will only reboot and report it's corrupt again until the batteries have sufficient voltage.  The only way to restore it is to replace the batteries, then boot with the ekey and diag key, and clear NVRAM and Safe Storage only.   Then it will boot normally again and go into initial setup.  And once that is completed.  The machine operates normally again.
 
Easily replaced without having to remove the card itself.  But soma may find it easier to remove the card to replace them, because it also makes it easier to access the CR2032 battery on the montherboard to replace it. 

[Gasman]

There are two battery carriers for the CR2450's in the top of the PCI card inside the brainbox.

The NVRAM chips are on that PCI card.  So if their voltage drops below 3v (might allow it to go a bit lower).  But if it does, it corrupts the NVRAM, and the machine will never boot properly again until they are replaced and the NVRAM is cleared. 

Will usually give a blue or red screen error referencing NVRAM, or just keep rebooting itself.   But even if an error screen says it's recoverable and to just turn the key, it's not...  It will only reboot and report it's corrupt again until the batteries have sufficient voltage.  The only way to restore it is to replace the batteries, then boot with the ekey and diag key, and clear NVRAM and Safe Storage only.   Then it will boot normally again and go into initial setup.  And once that is completed.  The machine operates normally again.
 
Easily replaced without having to remove the card itself.  But soma may find it easier to remove the card to replace them, because it also makes it easier to access the CR2032 battery on the montherboard to replace it. 

Ok, thanks.   I will give that a shot later tonight.

Bob

[sccarlso]

Good luck!  If you encounter any error screens, a photo of it can go a long way. 

But hopefully all works fine. 

[Stayouttadabunker]

Hi Gasman,
It's not necessary to quote someone that's helping you.
When you want to respond, hit the "Reply" button instead? 
Thank you!