Need help finding out what type machine I have

[kooties8]

Hi everyone, this is my 3rd of 4 slot machine projects I purchased. You guys helped me with my 1st one and I'm hoping for assistance with this unit. Its day 3 of opening up this Bally EM slot machine and tinkering with it. So, before I dig too deep, I need to find out what type of machine this is. I've been googling to get an idea, but I figured, I would just start with asking what type this is, then it will be easier to search on this site to correctly find what I need. This unit has been tinkered with, I think modded for free play but not sure. There appears to be multiple problems, some I will add now but what my real question is the type of unit I have so I'm searching correctly.  I plugged it in, lights kick on, I'm able to put in a coin and it sounds like it takes the coin with a bell sound (if I remember correctly) but it doesn't matter. You can pull the handle and the reels spin. The front says insert coin but as soon as you pull the lever, the insert coin goes away and the reels spin. After the reels stop, the door says insert coin again. I attached a photo of some wires that appear to be fixed or rewired, not sure, I have not traced anything yet. Another issue is the 1st reel only spins or drops 1 spot when plugged in 9 times out of 10. When the unit is unplugged, you can still pull the lever and the 1st and 2nd reels spins and stop about at the same time. 3rd reel seems to spin correctly. I have many other issues with this unit, but I will stop for now and when ready, start a new topic. Only giving this info out because last time I posted a topic, I was asked what issues I was having. I DO NOT expect to have all my issues answered on this topic but was just adding it if asked like last time.  Thank you in advance, any and all assistance is appreciated. I have worked with an EM machine before and still have it (a shuffle alley bowling unit) but not a fan of EM.

[DavidLee]

The insert coin light should go out on the first coin in. Then the coin accepted light will come on.
That is located directly to the left. If this light does come on. It could be a bad bulb, a wire connection,
a contact switch on the coin in relay switch stack or a bad connection on the beau-plug.

Regarding the reel timing, a good cleaning of the mechanisms under the reels could help.
That would be the first thing to do before any mechanical adjustments.

The double up machine is not very common, which is a good thing.
Sometimes the components inside will be marked with numbers that could identify the machines.
It’s possibly in the 10_ _ series.

[kooties8]

Thank you for the response. I will pull out the reels and hopper and look again for some markings. The insert coin never goes off after putting coins in. Only goes off when you pull the arm down. Also if you win, nothing spits out the hopper, no bells or anything so it looks like a long process to repair. The reels, I will look at and clean them up, see what happens. Thank you again for helping me out, very grateful and will post all positive or negative outcomes.

[wolftalk]

if I had to guess, I'd say it's a 1090 that has been modified to only take 2 coins instead of 3.

pictures of the following will help:

1] codes stamped into the slotted reel index discs.  Reel 1 is good enough if the codes on reel 2/3 are obvious increments

2] the entire top insert guts ... the stuff behind the lamp board

3] the payout counter disc showing the trace pattern and the m-645-xxx number

the original "double up" was an 808, but that was a narrow reel game that looks very much like a model 809.  You have a wide reel cabinet and a $1 hopper, so the circuitry is likely much more like a 1090.

the insert coin light should be on whenever the game is ready to accept a coin.  It goes off during a spin and when you've deposited max coins.  If the game is a modified 1090, the adjustment of the "open-at-top" switch on the coin unit is not correct.   Look for a switch poking out over the white plastic ratchet/gear on the coin unit with yellow/brown (36-2) and orange/red (71-2) wires.  It should open when the coin unit has stepped up once.

ya can look at the 1090-1 schematic on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ to get an idea of how the game is probably wired (ignoring the wiring in the reels to the payout counter since yours will be different there).

however, you should still be able to yank the reel mech and stick an ohmeter probe on grey wire 90 on reel 3 wiper board and have a zero ohm connection to green/red wire 41 on reel 1 if you set up a win that pays 10 on the reels.  If you get zero ohms, your reel wipers are probably aligned ok.  If you don't clean the wiper boards and try again.

[kooties8]

Thank you for the reply. I attached some photos as requested and some to see what I am scratching my head at. So the only thing I was able to fix was reel 1 to spin correctly while the unit was plugged in but not it stops just after reel 2 stops. Not a big deal, that can be adjusted later, not my biggest issue right now.
Code stamp on reel 1 is BON DU 1 and someone wrote on each reel arm 1088-1.
I got the pic of the counter disc but I cannot find any m-645-xxx numbers.
I don't understand how the unit could be modded to take 2 coins instead of 3. The machine appears to only offer 2 payout types according to the top bezel.
If I am looking at the correct switch you are referring to in the coin unit. All I see is a switch in the closed position with 2 yellow wires and a blue and tan wire shown in the EM coin pic. Switch at the far right. When I insert a coin, it opens and closes withing less than a second. Wish I could upload video.
So a little history here so you know the hopper works. Day 1 I was messing with this thing and found the I could just pull the handle with no coins and the reels would spin. The next pull would not pull and inserting a coin did nothing. after about a minute I could pull the arm again and the reels would spin. This was a pattern, you get the idea. One time I pulled the reel when it allowed me and I got Bar Bar Bar but no payout, no bell, nothing. I went to pull the level again and when I pulled it all the way down, the bell goes off and the hopper was spitting out coins but the reels did not spin. It only would do this when I held the arm down and would just ring and run the hopper until I let go of the level. I realized the drive shaft or trip shaft wasn't extending fully and not allowing the reels to spin. So I pulled on it unit it clicked, then the unit would spin after I did that. So I pulled the reels out, cleaned off all the grime I could and lubricated all that I could, then worked the arm back and forth until the arm was (to my knowledge) working smoothly and correctly as far as now I can just pull the lever at any time with no coin. However if I hit a jackpot or Bar Bar Bar, nothing happens, even after pulling the lever again. So that's weird to me but might make sense to you.
As far as the rest of your reply. I have not tried a ohmmeter on the reels yet. Baby steps for this pee brain, this is my 1st EM slot machine and Im already feeling over my head....
I forgot to add comments on the wiring pic. THat wiring hack is on the left side of the reels unit, not sure what,why, or how that helps but I confused on what going on there. Correct wiring specs will help.  You cant really see it but the yellow wire soldered to the red wire goes to nothing, red wire is cut, not following down with the other red wire. The other red wire is soldered to a light brown/orange wire.  The black wires are soldered to brown/ yellow but again 1 black is cut.

[wolftalk]

okay, going to need to see highest possible resolution pictures ... since you can't post them here, email them to slotpics@cdyn.com.  Video is fine also.  Try and get your lighting good so wire colors can be seen.

a video showing the reels spinning would be great (or if you want, list the symbols on the three reel tapes from top to bottom, including blanks.  e.g. in your 3rd pic on post 1, we can see on reel 1:
... BL, BA, BL, B7, BL, BA, BL, B5 ... 

none of the reels in the pic show the top of the tape.

anyway, looks like you have a machine assembled from parts of other machines.  Common for aftermarket refurbish shops to do this kind of thing.   Having bar symbols under the 7's I don't recall seeing before and will calculate payback once the reel strips are known.

the cabinet (maybe) and reel mechanism coming from a 1088 makes sense ... a 1088 is a "buy a pay" machine where adding a 2nd and 3rd coin enables the higher paying combinations.  A 1090 is a "multiplier" where the 2nd coin doubles the pay and the 3rd coin triples it and gives a bonus on the jackpot.  So someone made a 1088 behave like a 2-coin 1090 ... btw, I assume there's no plate on the outside of the cabinet below the handle with a model/serial number on it?

your top insert board has pieces like a 1090 ... the pinball machine score reels do the payout multiplication.  One of the reels does the doubling, the other is probably only used for the 500 pay.  A similar thing may have been used on an 808, but i don't have internal pictures of one of those to see.

the slotted metal index discs may have come from a model 808.  I don't have those specific codes on my list, but my paperwork ends around 1978 and bally made EM machines after that.  Doesn't really matter ... assume the index discs match the reel tapes and forget about it.

the coin unit on the top insert board has been modified ... note how the peg with the slot in the top has been moved from the hole it originally was in (or the original rivetted peg was cut off and they added a bolt-in one).  That's one way to make a unit that was supposed to step up twice only step up once assuming one of the switches disconnects the step-up coil when the unit steps up once. 

unfortunately, the springs in your pic are hiding the ratchet teeth so we can't see if/where the missing tooth area is on the ratchet.  Usually the ratchets have a "flat spot" where they can't physically step up more because a gear tooth is missing.  If you want a 2 step unit to be a 1 step unit, you could file off a tooth and widen the flat spot.

the switch operated by the white plastic peg looks wrong ... normally the switch blade is on the other side of the peg like in the pic below.  Before changing anything tho, need to see wire colors and figure out how the unit is working.

you're going to be on a bit of a journey since no schematic will exactly match the machine, so will likely need to start debugging the individual functions.  First step is figure out the coin/odds unit on the top to make sure it's not doing something daft, then deal with dropping a coin doing the right thing (tripping the coin relay, tripping the handle release, and second coin stepping up the copin/odds unit).   It's simpler than it appears once you get the hang of a few details.

having the hopper do something when the handle is pulled implies you have switch adjust issues on the left side of the reel mech, so need to see hi-res pics of the entire left side like this one:
   https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/1088/pics/1088%20-%20reel%20mech%20left.jpg

oh, and the messy wiring on the left side of your reel mech is just untidiness after someone connected a meter.  They didn't bother to tie the wires more like the 1088 pic referenced above, and didn't even tape the connections.  You should at least tape the splices.

[kooties8]

I think you just took the high road and described every possible issue very politely instead of just saying in 1 sentence that this machine is just FU@<3D.  Thank you for taking all that time to help. I will start with photos sent to the email given. This sounds like a job for someone with more experience, you tell me. I will start with what you gave me so far but by the end of June, you might be blocking me for driving you crazy on this journey.. Im already questioning my purchase of this “deal”.

[wolftalk]

if ya got the patience (and maybe enough cocktails and swearing), you'll get it working.

it's usually a couple switches that need tweaking, plugs that need a scrub and maybe some mechanical fiddling, but if the reels spin and lock okay, you aren't looking at major cleaning/disassembly.

while it's ideal if your first game is factory standard and you have the correct paperwork, refurb games usually followed the bally conventions so it's not too bad figuring it out.  The key thing is you need to be willing to say "wtf are you talking about" so people can try explaining again differently until it makes sense :-)

[kooties8]

Ok, starting with the reel tape, sorry I have to do things step by step.
Reel 1 starting at the top of the tape is- BA, BL, BA, BL, BA, BL, BA, BL, B5, BL, BA, BL, BA, BL, BA, BL, B7, BL, BA, BL, B5, BL.  Reel 2 is - BA, BL, BA, BL, B7, BL, BA, BL, B5, BL, BA, BL, BA, BL, BA, BL, B7, BL, BA, BL, B5, BL. Reel 3 is- BA, BL, BA, BL, BA, BL, B5, BL, BA, BL, BA, BL, BA, BL, B5, BL, B7, BL, B5, BL, BA, BL.

There is no plate below the handle nor can I find anything but a small sticker at the bottom which probably means nothing.

Video and photos sent to email attached.

[wolftalk]

the sticker is the union label.

below is the calculated payback percentage for the machine (assuming I didn't screw up).  92.46% payback for a 25c machine is pretty decent, and statistically you should get paid 1/8 of the spins.

I've put your pictures/videos in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/custom_slots/double_up/ and will add anything else ya send there later.

as you said, your wipers came from a 1088 so it's likely the game was made from a 1088 and a 1088/1089/1090 schematic will be close.  The game is essentially a 2-coin 1090, and the first step will be to make sure the coin unit resets (do it manually per the info I emailed you) and see if the game will lock the handle after a spin.  Only play one coin and spin until the game is unlocking the handle and paying one coin correctly, then can move on to 2 coin play.

so, do this:
- manually reset the coin unit
- spin the reels if the handle is unlocked
- does it pay if you got a winner (wishful thinking), and is the handle locked after the spin?
- if the handle is locked, does the coin relay trip and the handle unlock when you deposit one coin?

if you are manually operating the coin switch because coins are dumping back out to the tray, that's ok ... but only toggle the coin switch once between spins.  The lights on top should only be illuminating the left area for 1 coin play.

[wolftalk]

the machine has a novel way to make a machine free spin ...

problem is the switches are still in the normal factory state, so this approach means no payout and the coin unit won't reset.  If the coin lockout is working right, the game won't accept a coin either.

removing the twist tie is step 1. 

step 2 is probably degreasing the assembly - shouldn't be grease/oil on the armature plate, switch blades, white plastic roller, wires or switch stack.  I'd probably hose things down with isopropyl alcohol with a rag/paper towel shoved under to absorb the runoff.  A spray can of electronics cleaner / mass airflow sensor would work.  Brake cleaner/acetone is okay but not ideal on plastics.

If the gunk is wd-40 residue, it really has to go ... that stuff will shellac up and become gummy and non-conductive. It shouldn't be anywhere in the machine.  wd-40 has appropriate products, but the standard blue can isn't one of them for use inside a slot machine.