Decline of Las Vegas

[shortrackskater]

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/las-vegas-tourism-drops-sharply-some-visitors-claim-casinos-empty-amid-rising-costs

GEE I WONDER WHY??? 

Parking Fees.
"Resort" Fee scam.
No more real meal deals like the "deuces wild" breakfasts.
Insanely high room rates.
Buffets, that used to be a deal.
Skyrocketing regular resturant prices.
Fees for entering everywhere, like the pools.

I could go on and on. It's turned into Disneyland type pricing yet they still make $$$ on gambling - or they did. 
Of course you have to spend $100 just to figure out the "wins" on most machines now since they've all been replaced with video games basically.
I am SO GLAD that I went there a little in the late 80's and early 90's and still experienced the deals, meals and shows. Yes I gambled probably $200 in various REAL slot machines, like Top Dollar, Haywire, Wild Cherry, etc. I won $400 in the same Haywire machine at the Mirage, twice! And I had a great breakfast for $1.99 at another casino -  let's see... two pancakes, two sausage, two eggs, toast and coffee if I recall.
I remember visiting the Stardust, and the Sahara. Saw a burlesque show there!!!
Wooo Hooo - boobies and those huge headdresses. 
But great magic shows and music intermixed! 
Laughlin still seemed to have some of this "left over" when I was there in 2018 but I bet it's gone from there by now.
One memory in Laughlin was back around 1996 (I think) playing a Bally EM 50¢ machine. So it paid each time. After a few plays I started noticing a distinct sound time to time as the coins dropped, but intermixed with other coin dropping sounds. Upon inspecting the half dollars I noticed some were dated 1965 to 1970 and, yep, that was why they made a different noise as they contained 40% silver.
Glad I saved all those! 
I wish I had sat there longer since now those are worth about $7 each.

Long gone now are the days of dirty hands, coin buckets, FINDING (and playing) stray coins in cash trays, affordable buffets, affordable food, affordable shows,  ANYTHING there. I might go if we have another west coast lunch or dinner but I have no reason to ever return to Las Disney Vegas. No thanks! 

[63mini]

 Yeah, I remember.  I miss those days.  When I moved here years ago, the casinos would advertise for free slot stands.  My father and I loaded up a van load and it did even make a dent in their pile.  This was at the Bourbon Street Casino.  I rarely even go into a casino anymore, and I live here... 

  Oh, and I have a story about the boobies at Jubilee's for you Mark.

[shortrackskater]

Oh, and I have a story about the boobies at Jubilee's for you Mark.

 

[PapaDrew]

I've been to Vegas twice this year, once in January for work and then again in March for my wife's birthday.

In March at Caesar's it was $9 for a 16oz bottle of water.  That's just plain stupid, and I can't imagine people are going to put up with that crap anymore.

[jay]

I used to  book a car from priceline for 9.99/day and just leave it with Valet. For the $40 bucks and $10 in valet tips it was cheaper than taking a cab even if I never used the car the whole time I was in town.

You could walk down the strip and see Steak and Eggs for 1.99, then after you ate, you walked another block and saw a better deal for 1.89 with better looking side dishes and you kicked yourself for blowing the extra dime. You could play 25c craps at the Casino Royale and enjoy the $1 margarita or $1 draft beer. You could go to the cafe in the 4 queens for a steak dinner for 7.99 and add a lobster tail for 4.99 - we would order 3x lobster tails each and feel good about our seafood scarf-down even if we didn't finish the steak.
Now you can't get a coffee and bagel for under $40.

The only time I get to Vegas now is for Big IT conventions. Like Gartner, Cisco Live, HP Ignite. Rooms at $375 + resort fee + taxes makes it close to $500, thats now $700+ in Canadian $$. Its the company dime but I still feel like I have been raped and there is no boon doggle as every expense is scrutinized at those prices. Vegas used to be called SIN city - as it was a cheap flight, bring the "not the wife" or "the wife" along and it was cheap enough that it never even registered on expenses. Execs used to overlook this as they were doing it too. Nope - 3 page ROI justifications and "what will you do different" based on what you learned at the convention.   

Eat at PFChangs at Planet Hollywood and you pay a "franchise fee" on top of the bill of about $9.00 per head - if you go over two blocks off strip there is a standalone PF Changs that is 20% less and no franchise fee. Not exactly convenient when you have forgone a car as they are now charging obscene rates for parking and still have their hands out for tips.

Gambling is a pitty with 6/5 blackjack, $25 min table limits, and automatic shuffling machines. Taxes on any slot / Video Poker over $1199.....The mob used to run a clean game - they said when there was a guaranteed house edge with people were lining up to lose money they didn't need to rig games. Now even if your up a few $$ (against all odds) your going to piss it away at an expensive restaurant or even just the resort fee on check out. Takes the fun out of it.
 
IF you are a gambler come to Canada - 3/2 blackjack. No rules on card counting, and no taxes on any win no matter how big of a win. $5 table limits, $15 in busy times, and the high limit room is $25 min. Not $200. Same slots and video poker as any casino in the US.

Vegas was always a spectacle - now that they are de-theme'ing everything and letting the themes go to pot. Remember the Nile ride in the Luxor, now an science experiment in Algae. The Excalibur was always low budget but they had to install some guide wires on one of the faux turrets to stop it from falling. The pirate show at Treasure Island was fun, as was the Mirage volcano both long gone.

The only thing left is seeing some of the big names in entertainment and the food. Not that you can afford either. A bunch of buddies and I were going to head down to see AC/DC perform but one of our friends had a scheduling conflict so we decided to go stay at the River Rock (casino/hotel) in Vancouver one sky train station away from the airport. The AC/DC tickets were $100 less in Canadian dollars than the ones in Vegas. Lower bowl was $189/head C$ - same in Vegas was $279 USD. Hotel didn't have resort fee. The only thing exorbitant at the hotel was the Gordon Ramsey steak house. Not a fan of British cooking - lol. The one at the Paris was better but they also made it fun as they had the "tube" that took you from Paris to the UK for the experience. Again they don't play that up anymore.

At one time the SanRemo (by the trop and mgm) used to offer Canadian money at par. You had to change your $$ at the cage vs the table - and when you charged everything to the room you could check out in C$ vs usd. That was a 35% discount.....

If Vegas wants people back they know what they need to do. Its just that the Casinos are now run by corporations and the shareholders are looking for profit so the idea of eliminating resort fees, free parking, offering 2 for 1 buffets, etc is now a very foreign concept.

We also have the whole Trump Tarrif thing going on now so there is a lot of buy Canadian and keep the money in Canada - its killing US tourism and a lot of the border towns are suffering. I am sure it will work itself out - or be eliminated as soon as hes out of office but not before it hurts a lot of people and businesses. I can easily see a lot of foreign visitors opt to go elsewhere. Singapore has Marina Bay Sands owned by LasVegasSands and Macau has a Venetian and Wynn along with many others from Genting group (big in Europe).   

Maybe we need to move this to Rants and Raves .... lol





 

[jay]

From the British newspaper "The Telegraph"

According to LVCVA figures, Canadians make up around 3 per cent of Vegas visitors, with 1.4 million making the trip last year. Yet one year later, the data shows that more Canadians are thinking twice about crossing the border, perhaps due to the President’s fiery rhetoric towards his northern neighbour.

Recent figures from Vegas’s Harry Reid Airport show that arrivals on Air Canada jets are down 5 per cent year-on-year, while passenger numbers for the low-cost Canadian carrier Flair have plummeted 55 per cent. Not the sort of thing you want to see in an already tight economy.

[Badbaud]

https://revolver.news/2025/08/the-downfall-of-sin-city-why-vegas-was-better-under-the-mob/

Good Article

[Chris-socal]

Wow, the conversation after that article is unapologetically blatant, but sadly true.

I visited Badbaud in May, after doing my slot business during the day I walked over to the strip. I stupidly went to an ATM to get some cash, the fee was $9!
I couldn’t find a bartop machine with blackjack on it to play while enjoying food and a beer so I went to a food court, grabbed a $15 burrito and drank the water I took in a bottle. They somehow convince you that they have no choice because its so expensive to operate now, blah blah.

The strip got $24 out of me. If I had found a machine that was reasonable I was prepared to sit there for awhile and enjoy playing while people watching. I didn’t dare order a cocktail and I lost interest in trying to play so I walked around looking at all the AI running Roulette and Craps.

Chris

[shortrackskater]

I think the demise of Las Vegas is entirely self inflicted.
And I think "Primm" (State Line) became a ghost town due to that as well as all the Indian gaming casinos here in California. Never understood why the government decided that opening casinos here was a "good idea" because it ruined the allure of "Vegas." I think that decision was the outcome of a lawsuit in the late 80's though.
Of course the Indian casinos here didn't give free drinks, cost more, paid out less, etc ... but Vegas just followed suit with that corporate run method of operation. I'd guess the casinos in California probably do fine regardless of the perks since they're simply closer in distance. It's much easier for a tour bus to do turnaround trips when it's 80 miles verses over 200 to the Nevada state line.

[jay]

I think that allowing gambling in most states other Nevada is a whole other can of worms.
When I lived in PA (2000-2007) we had the Grey-Liners - this was the nick name of the busses that went from Pittsburgh up to Windsor Canada so the retirees could play the slots and buy thier meds. I think it was $149 which got you a bus ride up, a room for the night and the ride home. For the life of me I cannot remember the acutal name of the bus company, but these ground to a halt when gambling came to PA. Atlantic city was never vegas. Either no shows, or crap entertainment but it was on the east coast so you could avoid the 4hr flight and pretend.

Foxwoods which used to be purely First Nations got it right as they bring in all sorts of mid-tier entertainment, Franki Vallie, Foreigner - stuff that appeals to the over 40 crowd (with money) and being so close to Boston, seafood is cheap.

With Vegas de-themeing you could be in any casino anywhere in the country and the all look exactly the same. This is where Vegas started to diversify into the celebrity restaurant scene, mega clubs as gambling is no longer the draw.

[shortrackskater]

The allure of Las Vegas is gone, or nearly gone.
I'm also thankful I got to see Fremont Street when it was an actual street.
It was old but classy in a way. I've got a great old black and white photo of it somewhere; I'll have to find it. (I added one I just found)
Is this the bus you were talking about Jay?

[jay]

IT might have been.... My recollection is probably more from the flyers and advertisements in places like community halls, Giant Eagle (super market) than actually seeing the busses.
The term Grey Liner ... was more about the average age of the person on the bus. They used to go from the retirement communities, church parking lots etc.
Being both Canadian, and around 38 - I had little interest in going to Canada to play slots. I also used to get up to Sarnia Ontario frequently as my company had chemical plants there.
So if I wanted to gamble there were other options.

[Badbaud]

When I got out of the service I lived out of a mini storage unit. For food I would get the free food fliers found in the local gas stations. The lines were long at the casino for a bowl of gruel but the free food was good.
Showers were taken at a popular truck stop. I got a job at the Pioneer Club downtown when traffic was still allowed. In their basement was a blocked off tunnel that
was used  for the political types to escape the police raids and reemerge across the street,  way back then. 

[jay]

That sounds like it warrants a book.... some day I will have to drop by and buy you dinner to hear the full story....

I always thought if I was homeless that I would become a professional mourner, attending funerals mostly for the free spread put out afterwards.
Perhaps impersonating the long lost uncle to get some of the deceased clothing and suits..... just cause your homeless doesn't mean you have to look the part.

[dailey]

It seems Las Vegas casinos are in a death spiral with fewer gamblers these days as they no longer want average working class people. They want to cater to the wealthy only. I just wonder if some interesting slot machines will be hitting the used market? I don't think they are all leased.

[lookes]

Some group should find a city and start making a 'new', old Vegas.  Vegas was cool in the 80's and 90' when I visited. You couldn't pay me enough to go there now. Maybe I'm just old.   

[dailey]

I enjoyed my stay at the Bellagio about five years ago but hated being nickel and dimed to death. All the added undisclosed charges. A resort fee when all I wanted was to gamble, not hang out at the pool. And I hate being charged for parking just for the privilege of spending my money in their casino. I never returned. Now If I want to gamble, I'm only 21 miles from the Yaamava casino in Highland, CA. They have more slots than any casino in Vegas. I believe the number is 7,400. They have nice parking garages and parking is free.

I've read some articles which claim that along with all of the current greed in Las Vegas, casinos have reduced the RTP on slots. They are trying to squeeze more revenue out of everything. The way things are going, maybe casinos will end up with only high limit slots. I don't know where they think the customers are going to come from.

[stingygamer]

dont forget declining payouts on slots and worse rules on table games increasing the house edge. I've heard rumblings about 000 roulette tables poppoing up there (7.62% house edge!).


Good news is, casinos in my home state of PA are bound by state law to have fair rules (3:2, DAS, split to 4, double down any 2, s17)

[stingygamer]

Yeah, I remember.  I miss those days.  When I moved here years ago, the casinos would advertise for free slot stands.  My father and I loaded up a van load and it did even make a dent in their pile.  This was at the Bourbon Street Casino.  I rarely even go into a casino anymore, and I live here... 

  Oh, and I have a story about the boobies at Jubilee's for you Mark.

[jay]

Caesars / Harrahs had 000 wheels when I last went there.

I am in CostaRica right now and stopped at a Casino in San Jose on Thursday - we were crossing from Quepos to Cahuita (Caribbean side) and it’s about a 9 hr drive so we stopped 1/2 way for the night.

The wheels here are single 0, blackjack is low limit at $5 but have unusually high table limits to $5000.
If you have the bankroll and the cahoonies you can use the martingale system for betting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system).

Just for reference sake statistically you should not win nor lose more than 6 hands in a row.
So the rule of thumb for a Casino is to have the table min/max out at 6 doubles.
5,10,20,40,80,160…
With a $5 min and a $200 max you can’t double your 160 bet to 320.
Typically you see Vegas with $25 min and $1000 max.
25,50,100,200,400,800
With the $1000 max you get to $800 and can’t double it.

The tables were all continuous shuffle. The only negative rule is that aces could only be split once. That caught my wife off guard as she was dealt 4 aces in a row. Lost $20 bucks.

All told we played 6 hrs and landed 10,500 colons up. $41 (usd).

The slot machines were all in English and mostly dominated by Williams and Aristocrat.
I didn’t see any video poker but they did have a poker room.