Hold light not working

[tjankovs]

Hello...I just picked up a machine and all the buttons work.  All button lights work except the HOLD 1-5 lights do not.  The wiring looks very unusual compared to reference photos.  Most of it is orange and soldered and there are a few green/yellow connectors that have fallen off of some switch.  Not sure were to start here any suggestions are welcome to not cause damage to the FETs.  Also, do the cherry switched just unclip from the button housing on the bottom?

Thanks
TJ

[Chris-socal]

Ok this is gonna be a little funky because Im traveling and Im in a national park that has very limited internet access.
You didn’t say if you have a PE or a PE+, they might be the same. Coincidental I had to rebuild a button loom last year and I happen to have the screenshots saved.
First off you need to understand and appreciate the genius of the wire loom, thanks to fellow member Badbaud, he created the wire color pattern that IGT ended up using, it’s basically the Resistor color code. In my first attachment you see the schematic, bulbs in the top right area, each bulb has a trace to J1, there will be two numbers like this 15-22….22 is the wire gauge so the other one is the color code. Solid brown would be 11!
Attachment #2 is the color code reference chart. So, if you have a brown wire with a green stripe its going to be 15. Find that wire on the schematic and follow it to the bulb on the schematic to determine which hold button it belongs to. All bulbs should have one green wire if I recall correctly.

Sorry its the best I can do not being able to look at my PE machine.

Chris

[tjankovs]

Chris...thanks for the detailed info this will help a ton!  Very interesting wiring method.  This explains why my 13yr old could not press 3 buttons a time for a hold.  From the schematic it looks like the hold lamps are all controlled from the same node, not independently.  In my test menu, I see a option to turn on hold 1, hold 5, or hold 2/3/4.  So I think I most likely have 3 control signals.  This would align with the 3 dangling wires I found.

Looks like a weekend project.

TJ

[tjankovs]

I found the schematic for my machine and it aligns with the test modes.  Looks like I have some tracing and wiring to do this weekend!

[tjankovs]

Well...I dug a little deeper to check the wiring and bulb condition and to my surprise there is NO BULB holder for the HOLD buttons.  Also, I do not see additional blue wires that would power the lights.  A couple of green grounds were disconnected and I put those back.  I appreciate your thoughts everyone.

TJ

[Chris-socal]

You are sure its a PE and not a Fortune 1?
I think I have heard that not all F1s have lights but I assumed all PEs did. I could be wrong.

[tjankovs]

Pretty sure.  Most of the parts are from 91/92.  It has the superboard in it.  Who know what was done to it in the past though.  Can you tell from the pics?  There are control signals for cash, bet 1, deal, and max, but none for hold 1-5.

Thanks
TJ

[Chris-socal]

I forgot you said it had a super board. Lights are controlled on the board so its possible you have a PE+ that never had lights in the buttons.

[tjankovs]

Another clue...the right ride of my case looks like it did or could support a slot handle.  Perhaps it was a PE+ video slot that was then converted into a video poker machine?  That could explain the lask of the three hold control wires.  What do you guys think?

TJ

[Chris-socal]

Yes, possible. There are a few indicators to me. Some of the pictures are not real clear so I can’t zoom in. I don’t know why someone would go to all that work, there are tons of PE and Plus machines around.

The fact that the button wires are soldered and not tightly loomed and mostly variants of orange indicates the loom might have originated from a Fortune machine. I think IGT was done soldering wires by 1987. I think the hold buttons should have flat connectors like the cashout and assistant buttons.

I just got back in town, I plan on looking in my PE thats in storage this weekend. Attached is a picture of a PE Plus with Super board I recently sold. Look at the buttons, that is a typical PE Plus wire loom. Im 99% sure all PE series of machines had lights in all buttons.

Chris

[tjankovs]

Thanks Guys...let me share out some higher quality pics for evaluation.  I seems to get errors when uploading the bigger files.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9EdSwbZii4vgUgbs7

TJ

[Chris-socal]

You need to resize photos to be 1Mb or smaller each and no more than 5 per post.
I use my iPhone or ipad for everything so I use an app called Image Compress (one word), it lets me select multiple images and the end size. The quality is great.
Other users email the picture to themselves and let the email program optimize the size.

We prefer attachments instead of links because hosted sites usually expire.

Also, Im unclear if you are still having issues or if you figured everything out. You noticed the wiring pattern is designed to prevent certain button combinations. You are Correct, they don’t want the Deal and Hold buttons to work simultaneously, etc. but if you have them in the wrong groups they will still work, all the buttons do is complete a connection to ground. As long as the group the button is connected to has an active ground.

I built a testing station for Plus boards and I only used two grounds for all the buttons, in other words, my groups were less selective.

Chris

[shortrackskater]

I added your photos from the link. As Chris stated, offsite links as they tend to disappear over time, which makes the thread confusing for anyone that may need this information in the future.

[tjankovs]

Thanks for adding the pics and the explanation of the links...make sense to have the content here for future views.  Yes I still have an issue.  There are no blue control wires for hold 1, hold 2-4, or hold 5. I will look at J200 tomorrow and may just need to add the missing wires from the connector to the switch and source some bulb holders.  Any idea on the P/N for the pins needed for that connector?

[Chris-socal]

Yup, the color of wire isn’t important, its the destination on the game board that matters.
You really have no choice other than finding the correct wire on the loom and connecting that wire to the correct button.
Can’t help with lighting wires or connectors. In truth you can buy a working PE machine for $300 - $400. Is it worth it to attempt adding bulbs?

Chris

[tjankovs]

I finally got a change to probe J200...the big connector from the PCB to the door.  Oddly enough the three wires and male pins for hold 1, hold 2-4, and hold 5 are not installed in the connector.  I checked the female side and all the corresponding outputs fire correctly in test mode.  Ordered the pins and will wire it up over Thanksgiving.

TJ

[Chris-socal]

Be sure the schematic is correct for your board. That sounds nearly impossible, obviously it didn’t leave the factory like that and the whole mismatch of wire type on the buttons is highly suspect. But as long as you get the correct pins matched to the correct buttons it will work.
As I mentioned I created a button box for that board and it was quite a puzzle. Just have fun with it.

Chris

[tjankovs]

FYI here is the info on the molex pins if anyone needs to buy them.  Wiring the hold lights up tomorrow.



TJ 

[Stayouttadabunker]

Wow...I just looked at the photos of the wiring.
Somebody knew exactly what they were doing, but just didn't have different colored wiring.
So easy to make a mistake!
They soldered directly to the switch contacts!! 
They didn't plan on changing any switches soon!

[tjankovs]

All the lights are working as they should now!  Lots of rewiring, crimping, and soldering.  I replaced all the buttons with new incandescent ones, added connectors for everything, and ran three new wires from J200 to power the hold lights.  Who knows what was done to this machine before.

TJ