Bally 1090

[BHerpin]

I recently picked up a Bally 1090 from a local flea market this past weekend to add to the man cave. The machine appears to be manufactured in 1979 from what I can read on the tag and seems to be in decent shape. I brought it home and played it for quite some time. It plays without putting any quarters in it and it also doesn't pay out so that is something I'll have to eventually work on. The problem I'm having is that it works fine 80% of the time but after about 20 or 30 pulls the handle will start getting stuck in the down position just before it trips the reel mechanism and the middle reel will not spin. I usually have to open the machine and manually press the actuating lever to get the handle to return to rest position. Not sure if this is just a lubrication issue or not. Any help would be appreciated. I noticed a couple of posts about Bally EM manuals so I'll try to start there.

Also, I'm in South Louisiana, does anyone know of any repair/restoration shops in this area?

[DavidLee]

The machine appears to be from the late 70s.
Machines sometime after the mid 80s were computerized.

The handle problem could be related to the L shaped piece that’s part of the reel trip mechanism.
Located on the right rear at the bottom of the reels chassis. Attached by two machine screws.
It should be flush with the back of the reels chassis.
I usually add a thin shim to the contact side as to notice any improvement before adjusting.

Another possibility would be an abundant amount of dried lubricant on moving parts that need to be lubricated.
Every roller bushings on that side of the machine should spin freely. That goes for all parts and bushings on cross shafts.

Post a picture looking in to the machine to confirm it’s is or isn’t a computerized machine.

[BHerpin]

Thanks, I'll do that when I get back into the shop and post some pics. After reading how Bally stamps their tags I went back and looked at mine and it appears to be stamped with a 79. It says Bally Manufacturing 1982 on the front glass under the reel window but that may be just the glass panel had been changed. I did notice a lot of old grease on the gears and such so I'm sure it will need a good cleaning and lube job.

[wolftalk]

in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/windup_and_kick/ there's pictures of the pieces david mentioned.

the base model 1090 was originally a $1 machine.  A typical 25c conversion adds a relay to control a coin lockout coin behind the coin mech vs the original scavenger solenoid.  You wind up with more-or-less a 1090-1, so the paperwork for that game on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots will be pretty much what you have.

generally speaking, paying someone to get the game going is usually not cost effective if the goal is to get the machine completely working and selling it, tho it depends a bit on regional pricing and what someone would charge you to overhaul the machine. 

If you can turn a wrench and if necessary look at an exploded parts diagram to see how pieces fit together, you'll be able to fix the game yourself.  The worst case is the reel mech is so gummed up with old grease you need to disassemble it and clean it all - that takes a few hours if you really clean all the pieces well.  If the reels spin well, then problems are usually electrical and fixed with cleaning the reel wiper boards and plug connections and/or adjusting switches.

there is/was a win meter in the upper right area of the reel glass.  Looks like it's covered with a sticker.  If it's not working, it's not needed for game play.  It's just an electro-mechanical counter that shows the number of coins ejected, and is supposed to reset every spin.

[BHerpin]

in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/windup_and_kick/ there's pictures of the pieces david mentioned.

the base model 1090 was originally a $1 machine.  A typical 25c conversion adds a relay to control a coin lockout coin behind the coin mech vs the original scavenger solenoid.  You wind up with more-or-less a 1090-1, so the paperwork for that game on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots will be pretty much what you have.

generally speaking, paying someone to get the game going is usually not cost effective if the goal is to get the machine completely working and selling it, tho it depends a bit on regional pricing and what someone would charge you to overhaul the machine. 

If you can turn a wrench and if necessary look at an exploded parts diagram to see how pieces fit together, you'll be able to fix the game yourself.  The worst case is the reel mech is so gummed up with old grease you need to disassemble it and clean it all - that takes a few hours if you really clean all the pieces well.  If the reels spin well, then problems are usually electrical and fixed with cleaning the reel wiper boards and plug connections and/or adjusting switches.

there is/was a win meter in the upper right area of the reel glass.  Looks like it's covered with a sticker.  If it's not working, it's not needed for game play.  It's just an electro-mechanical counter that shows the number of coins ejected, and is supposed to reset every spin.

Thanks for all the info. I'm not looking to sell the machine. It's my first slot that I want to add to the mancave so I just want to explore all the options. I'm pretty handy with a wrench and reading schematics, so i'll try the links you sent. Also, the reel meter does seem to be powered up although I'm not sure if it's working correctly yet. It just reads all zeros right now. It looks like it's covered with a sticker but that is just a glare. Here are a few pictures of the inside of my machine.

[BHerpin]

More pics.

[BHerpin]

Pics

[BHerpin]

Last one

[DavidLee]

Machine looks to be in decent condition.

Regarding the dollar to quarter conversion.

It’s possible at one point a complete quarter machine was placed into a dollar cabinet.

At this point is the machine working okay or is there a few minor problems?

[BHerpin]

When I bought the machine it was working fine with the exception of no payout.  We probably pulled on it 400 times with no issues. I set it up in my BAR-n and I think my son got a little too aggressive with his handle pulls letting the handle slam back into the rest position and then it started acting up. Now the handle gets stuck in the down position just before it trips the reels about every 4th or 5th pull. When it does trip the reels they don't seem to be in sync anymore. Sometimes the 2nd reel won't spin, sometimes none of the reels spin, sometimes only the 3rd reel will spin. I haven't messed with it yet. My plan is to check the adjustments that you guys mentioned earlier and do a thorough cleaning and lube of the mechanisms.

[wolftalk]

you'll have little trouble getting it going.

the free pull reason looks like someone tied back the bar sticking out of the top of the handle box.  For proper operation, the handle release relay above the handle box needs to be working.

there's a handle release video in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/ that shows how the handle releae lever blocks the bar when it's tripped.  Most games don't have the extra coil with the yellow wrapper in the handle release relay/mechanism tho.

the basic idea is:

1] insert coin and the coin relay on the lower left side of the reel mech trips

2] a switch on the coil relay powers the handle release relay and it trips

3] you can now pull the handle to spin or add more coins, but eventually you pull the handle.  Pulling the handle mechanically resets the coin relay and handle release relay.

4] if the reels stop in a winning combination, circuits complete thru the reel wiper boards and payout counter disc to power the payout relay.

5] a powered payout relay turns on the hopper and as coins eject, the payout counter wipers step up

6] when the payout counter wipers step up enough times, the circuit to the payout relay is disconnected and the play cycle is done.

the ice cube relay hanging on your front door is converting coin scavenging to coin lockout logic and some stuff behind the coin mech was changed.  Otherwise, you've got a dollar hopper that's been converted to quarters by changing the pinwheel disc the coins ride on (due to coin diameter difference).  The game is pretty much a 1090-1 and the paperwork for that machine should be very close to what ya got.

if you're bored, email the pics at highest possible resolution/size to slotpics@cdyn.com and I'll add them to https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ ... unfortunately NLG size limits make the smaller size pictures less useful for seeing changes or problems.  It's possible to convert higher res pictures to lower DPI to get the size down, but it's a pita for something the forum software should do for you if it really wants to reduce file sizes.

[BHerpin]

Thanks wolftalk. I'll send those pics over in a few minutes.

[BHerpin]

So interestingly I went to play the machine tonight and all is well. Handle pull was normal and all 3 reels spinning. It even paid out some quarters, although it was the wrong amount, but that’s a problem for another day. What I’ve found is that it doesn’t start acting up until you pull the handle 50-60 times and sort of get it warmed up, then it starts acting clunky again, handle getting stuck in the down position right before the kick, middle reel not spinning when it does kick, etc.. Is there any part of the reel system / piston that could be getting hot and sticking after it kicks 50 - 60 times in say a 5 minute span?

[wolftalk]

have you tried moving the L-shaped stop bracket a little bit?

there isn't really anything particular that is heat sensitive ... if anything when stuff gets warm some grease may soften and things work better.  'course, heat always makes things expand a bit so if you are on the hairy edge of something working when it's cold ...

reels not spinning happen when the latch pawl doesn't engage - usually because the arm didn't pull back far enough due to the kick happening too soon.  Could also be a worn or sticky latch pawl.

[DavidLee]

Like wolf said.

Move the L shaped trip stop forward about 1/16.
In most cases it’s flush with the back of the reels chassis.
If you search this form there will be a few post, maybe some with pictures about this part.

Myself, I wrap a piece of aluminum around it and tape it across the back onto the chassis.
If it trips the reels without a problem. Then the bracket needs to be moved forward.
If the problem still occurs, then something else needs attention.
The aluminum I use is cut from a soda can. Safety first.

Also the trip lever itself can be malfunctioning.
Possibly be the cold grease on the trip lever or the spring is whacked out causing it to not work properly.

The cold moving parts will move slower.
When the machine sets over night. Power it up in the morning, but don’t play it.
Let it warm up for 20 to 30 minutes, then give it a try.
Take note on how it preforms. Like does it malfunction right away.
Or does it take 40 to 50 handle pulls to run poorly.
Rule of thumb, when the reels glass is warm to the touch the machine is at normal temperature.

When machines heat up everything expands very slightly.
If there is a problem, it’s usually contacts that need to be adjusted.

[BHerpin]

Like wolf said.

Move the L shaped trip stop forward about 1/16.
In most cases it’s flush with the back of the reels chassis.
If you search this form there will be a few post, maybe some with pictures about this part.

Myself, I wrap a piece of aluminum around it and tape it across the back onto the chassis.
If it trips the reels without a problem. Then the bracket needs to be moved forward.
If the problem still occurs, then something else needs attention.
The aluminum I use is cut from a soda can. Safety first.

Also the trip lever itself can be malfunctioning.
Possibly be the cold grease on the trip lever or the spring is whacked out causing it to not work properly.

The cold moving parts will move slower.
When the machine sets over night. Power it up in the morning, but don’t play it.
Let it warm up for 20 to 30 minutes, then give it a try.
Take note on how it preforms. Like does it malfunction right away.
Or does it take 40 to 50 handle pulls to run poorly.
Rule of thumb, when the reels glass is warm to the touch the machine is at normal temperature.

When machines heat up everything expands very slightly.
If there is a problem, it’s usually contacts that need to be adjusted.

I did adjust the bracket a bit yesterday evening, I ended up being about 1/32 forward or left of the reel chassis and got the best results.
I didn't read this message until I got to work today but I went into the barn this morning and played the machine unplugged. Same results, machine worked fine for the first 40 or so pulls then the handle started sticking at the bottom of the pull just before the kick. I did notice the latch pawl is a bit sticky to the touch when I move it by hand. Hopefully I'll have some time this afternoon after work to tinker with it and give it a good cleaning.

[DavidLee]

Here is another possibility that would cause the handle to bottom out.

The trip arm drive shaft.
If it is adjusted to short, the gears and handle will travel further to activate the trip lever pawl.

Add a little more length to the trip arm shaft.
Best to mark the starting position on the nut and add 1/2 turn to both nuts.
Note the 1/16 clearance between the pivot block and the center nut.

Will try to add a illustration if the file is not too large.

[DavidLee]

Reel mechanism

[BHerpin]

Reel mechanism

I think I'm awfully close to having it correct. After making several adjustments to the stop arm bracket in 1/64" increments (yeah, it seems to be that finicky) and oiling up all of the moving parts it seems to be working correctly. I've pulled on it about 60-70 times with no issues. That illustration is interesting because while I was trying to troubleshoot this machine I did adjust the drive shaft length but I eventually put it back to the original setting when I noticed it didn't help my problem but I did tighten that inner nut all the way down so based on that illustration I think I need to back it off to get that 1/16" gap. I'm going to play with it some more tonight to confirm I have it spinning correctly then I'll dive into the next issue which is that it is not stepping up when additional coins are deposited. It just stays on 3 coin play and doesn't reset after each spin. I can't thank you guys enough for the tips and troubleshooting.

[BHerpin]

Good news and bad news! Good news is the machine is spinning as it should. Probably pulled on it a few hundred times with no issues so problem number 1 is taken care of.

Problem number 2 is that I now have no payout at all. Before the machine would pay out something, now it does nothing when you hit a winning combination (no hopper movement). I'm thinking it must be some kind of fuse or stuck contact for the hopper. I've downloaded just about everything I can for the machine from this site and the Bingo site so I'll get to studying this weekend and hopefully have an answer by Monday.