Need help. Modified Bally 1088-34

[J_RADTKE]

Hello all! I was given an old Bally machine and am trying to get it back to normal operation. This is a new challenge for me, however I have extensive electrical and mechanical knowledge. Several areas of the machine wiring appear to be modified and tampered with. My issue currently is that the single coin deposit lights do not illuminate. I changed the bulbs and fixed a few bad connection points, and now they flicker momentarily. Every schematic I look for points me to this site, so here I am for help. Any advise is greatly appreciated. On with the photos...

[DavidLee]

Could be a loose wire or dirty and or contacts out adjustment.

Remove the top glass by pushing up and pulling the bottom outward.
Place the glass face down in a safe place. The light board is held by to slider.
This would be a good time to check the bulbs, then proceed.

Behind the top glass is where the odds unit is located.
It steps up with each coin and in turn activates the corresponding light.

The problem could be with the related spider contacts/brass rivets.

Clean the visible rivets that relate to the corresponding contact.
Then manually step up or reset  the unit depending on its current position.
Clean newly exposed rivets. Denatured alcohol and q-tips will work.

Also, in that cabinet there’s 3 relay coils. I believe the far right coil activates the step up plunger coil.
The center relay resets the step up unit and the far left operates the chime.

With the machine on, manually test the lights by stepping up and resetting the unit.

[J_RADTKE]

Does this cabinet photo help with parts ID? I cant seem to find a wire schematic for this machine. As stated before, There are clipped wires and modifications done in the upper cabinet as well. Specifically a Grey/Red that runs from the molex plug where it meets 2 solid yellows, but is isolated just behind the coin lights. The wires were electrical tape isolated and just put on the pin ends when I got it, luckily I have these connectors at work.

[wolftalk]

if it's really a 1088-34, the schematic is in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/

can you post a picture of the entire front of the machine?  It's common for the serial/model number plates to be swapped around in the aftermarket, so you may have something different and a different schematic would be closer.

If you want to email highest possible resolution pictures to slotpics@cdyn.com, I'll add them to the above site.   See pics in the 1088/pics or 1114/pics folder for example of what's really nice to have pics of.

[DavidLee]

It appears that the machine has been modified.
Typical 1088 top box. Usually the controls are mounted on the back of the light board.

[DavidLee]

Typical 1088

[J_RADTKE]

More photos, appreciate the help.

[DavidLee]

Top cabinet odds unit makes sense now.
As it appears that the machine only takes 2 coins

[J_RADTKE]

Correct.

[wolftalk]

assuming the relay and stepper unit is the only thing in the top compartment besides the lamp sockets on the panel, the usual thing would be that stepper unit is controlling when the 2nd coin lights are lit.

the left/1st coin lights are usually GI/general illumination/always on.

your relay could be a few things as bally had a slightly convoluted relay-controls-stepper-solenoid circuit for some of the stepper unit coils.  If the stepper in the top is stepping and resetting ok, figuring out whether the relay is a coin relay or a reset relay is optional.

if ya look at the 1088-34 schematic,  you'll see how the coin unit wipers turn on the 2nd and 3rd coin lamps.  Your game is probably very close to a 1088-34 with the stepper modified to only step up once instead of twice (reset position = 1 coin, stepped once = 2 coins).

in any case, if the left lights in the top aren't working, see if the wire colors on the sockets are blue (20) and yellow (30) ... (x ) are wire id's on the 1088-34 schem.  Usually a decent refurb shop stuck with the standard wire colors ... if they used whatever they had, you'll have a little more work tracing wires back to the bally harnesses and seeing what the factory wire colors were.

is the lights the only problem?

[J_RADTKE]

Thanks very much for that info. I will give more wire colors and pictures when I get home. There are several problems other than the lighting.  Biggest issue being that It doesn't pay on the payline. I've been messing with the reels without any good info found yet on the mechanical ones to check the index of all 3. The wiper boards are all labeled 1088-34. For example, It will pay 10 coins when it shouldn't, but doesn't pay at all on a triple bar like it should. Also the win display in the door has been removed, so I cant read error codes. Looking for a replacement for that as well.

[J_RADTKE]

First photo shows a 10 coin pay which is not on the payline. The second seems to show the second coin as general illumination. Third is the back panel. Fourth, 1st coin rotates the contacts 1 set clockwise, 2nd coin rotates them back one set. The 2 coin lights stay on, after 1st coin, no lights, 2nd coin re lights the 2 coin display.

[DavidLee]

Typically the first coin light stays on all the time.
Deposit the first coin chime sounds, second coin switches to second coin light.
Next play first coin resets the coin until and the second coin light goes off.

[wolftalk]

someone made the top insert and didn't use existing wiring, so all bets are off with the wire colors. 

a 1088-34 didn't have a fluorescent tube in the top compartment - if they added new wiring for it or added wires to unused pin positions in the existing molex plugs, no problem. 

if they hijacked original wires and connected them to different things in the cabinet than the schematic shows, you'll have a bit more work tracing out some circuits.  The main thing you want to know is how close to a 1088-34 is it ... I'd need hi res pictures of the stuff in the top compartment, including the ratchet/gear side of the stepper unit to make a guess.

anyway, if you're okay with the 1088-34 schematic (or can figure it out), assume your machine is a 1088-34 with the following changes:

the lower pays have been removed:
 
no BE, PL, OR or CH symbols.  There's a couple ways to handle this - they could make a couple changes to wiring on the coin unit (assume the coin unit is the stepper unit in the top compartment), or they could tweak the coin unit to change it's reset position to be what used to be step 1 on a 1088-34 (step 0 = reset). 

what you really want to know is which or wires 90, 91 and 93 connecting to the reel 3 wiper board on the top right of the schem are being used now.

the coin unit has been modified:

it was originally a 2 step unit (3 positions - reset, step 1 and step 2).  It's now a 1 step unit.

reel wiper wiring has been changed

the bar payout wiring is probably almost exactly like the 1088-34 schematic shows.  The open question is whether it's still wire 91 feeding reel 3.

the 7's payout for the second coin is different.  On a 1088-34, three 7's paid 200.  You're going to have more complicated wiring for the 7s, possibly involving diodes and a 777 should power a jackpot relay which locks up the game for a hand pay.  The 1088-34 didn't have a jackpot lockup circuit, but something like a 1090-37 did and you can look at that schematic.

in any case, for your payout issues, the goal is a closed circuit path from the feed wire (90, 91 and/or 93) on reel 3 to the wires on the bottom of the reel 1 box on the schematic going to the payout counter.  If you have no diodes, you should be able to stick an ohmeter probe on the appropriate feed wire, position the reels for a win you care about, and have zero ohms to the payout wire on reel 1.

for example, if your feed was wire 91 on reel 3 wiper board, you should have zero ohms to wire 81 on reel 1 wiper board when you have triple bars on the reels.

if the payouts are nonsense, it's the position of the reel wipers that matter.  The wipers can be repositioned on the arms by loosening the two screws, or it's possible the slotted index discs or reel tapes/tins are installed onto the reel hub incorrectly.

[J_RADTKE]

How can I get you the hi-res pictures? I've been opening my cell phone photos in Paint on the PC to resize them. Hahahahaha!

[J_RADTKE]

Also, the one thing that looks really out of place is that there's a Black/Red (81) that is shown in the upper cabinet photo.  It is twisted around the exterior of the original harness to the coin unit in the door. Its just loose and appears to be cut from 2 other wires of the same color just to the right of the coin unit.

[wolftalk]

email highest possible resolution (actual size) images to slotpics@cdyn.com

you'll have extra wires and other changes, so the goal is to figure out what they are doing. 

generally tho, the game was almost certainly assembled and made to work correctly for the glass they put in, so ya just need to figure out the changes when the game isn't working. 

[J_RADTKE]

Emails sent in full resolution. 

[wolftalk]

I put the pics in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/custom_slots/1088%20-%20modified%20for%202%20coin%20play if people want to look.

you've got a bit of a hack there.

- the wiring taped up on the left of the coin door (inside view) is for the win meter - which you don't have.  It's not needed.

- the wiring and one of the relays to the right of the coin mech was for a coin lockout coil behind the coin mech.  Also looks like it's not there, and it's not critical for game function as long as the mech accepts coins and sends them over the coin switch.   Pull the coin mech and see what's behind it if you like tho.  I assume the black/red wire dangling there is going to one of the relay switch blades in the top compartment.

- you have a second relay on the door that hasn't been identified yet.  Probably need to get the wire colors on the switches.  The relay with the yellow/red wire going to a lug is probably the lockout relay which isn't doing much if you don't have a lockout coil behind the mech.

- the relay in the top compartment is unknown so far.  One orange/red wire on the coil is just going to orange wire 70 on the coin unit reset coil, so that's your 50V power.  The other orange/red wire is going where?  If it's the original 71-2 wire in the harness, that typically goes to a payout relay switch in the 6V circuits for the insert coin/coin accepted/winner paid lights and shouldn't be used in a 50V circuit.  You'll want to trace that orange/red wire and see where it goes.

- the lamp panel is wired for the black/red wire to turn on the 1 coin lights and the black/blue wire to turn on the 2 coin lights.  Trace those wires and see where they go.

- your coin unit has the original brown 60-5 wire on the step-up coil and 51-2 wire on the reset coil.  You really want to know where the 60-5 wire is going.  The 1088-34 schem says it's going to the reel mech. Do you have a relay/relays on the reel mech besides the coin relay on the left side?

- you're missing the coin diverter armature to the left of the coin switch and a purple piece of metal is directing all coins to the hopper.  That's ok, it's not really needed as people rarely have full hoppers in home use, and if they do, they don't typically have the game on a cabinet with hole in the top for the overflow coins to dump into.

to get the game basically functioning for 2 coins, you want the reset and step-up of the coin unit to work.  Before doing that, if you manually reset the coin unit by pushing in the coil plunger on the coil with the white/red wire, do the wipers move one rivet and the switches poking out over the ratchet/gear change state?

once you have the coin unit reset, depositing a coin should trip the coin relay and the handle release relay so you can spin.  Get that and the payouts working first, then you can deal with making the coin unit step up if you deposit two coins before spinning.

how much of that makes no sense?
 

[J_RADTKE]

Actually, all of that makes sense. The purple chute I made because every coin would go to the bottom of the cabinet hole and not the hopper when I first got the machine . I will trace the wires mentioned in the morning.  It does accept 2 coins for play if I didn't say that before. The single coin deposit light does not illuminated ever. I will re-read your instructions in the morning and give answers.  I really appreciate the help!