Bally EM Slot "922-A" Hopper needed after Refurb.

[Skimoosevt]

Last Fall decided to refurbish this 922-A. Now I be looking for a Hopper. If anyone has one, I'd be interested in it.

I have not been able to find much Documentation on this particular Slot.

If anyone can tell me the Hopper Contact Plate # and or have a link to its Wiring Diagram. I would be quite Greatful.

Thx.

[Skimoosevt]

922-A Progressive

[wolftalk]

the 922-K paperwork on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ will be very close to the 922-A.

both are lightning games and use the same payout counter and reel wiper wiring.

the 922-A had at least 4 variations for different payback percentages.  The 922-K is the 86.44% payback.  If your reel index discs have P-864-[59,59,63] stamped in them, that's what you have.  You could also have other codes and we'd have to try and cross reference them.  It doesn't matter much tho ... the difference is just the index disc slots and matching reel tapes.

the payout counter contact plate originally used was M-645-144 ... pretty common one.  However, most payout counter discs would work since you only need 20, 100 and 200 pay support.

[update] - you probably need a 40 pay trace as well for when you have 20 wins on two lines at the same time.  A 40 trace is much less common on payout discs.

[Skimoosevt]

Many Thank You's for the Detailed Response wolftalk!

The Reel Disc's are Stamped with "684 62".

Will the Contact Plate "M-645-144" work with the "684 62" Reels or is that what you are referring to when you mentioned we may need to cross reference?

I've seen a few different styles of Hoppers. Do they also have a Reference/Part Number? I have (5) other machines. I dont mind using one of those Hoppers and swapping out the Contact Plates if I have the correct Hopper.

#2thumbsup

[wolftalk]

if you have 684-[62,62,60] for reels 1-3, that's 85.69% payback

[62,62,63] would be 82.67% payback

the difference between the above is the 7th symbol and index disc slot depth on the reel 3 tape/index disc.  The higher payback has a BA/5 and the lower payback is just a BA

sometimes bally stamped the index discs with a code instead of the 684-xxx number. 

684-62 = 5L-JP-2A  (5 line, jackpot only, reel 2 version A.  Note this game uses the same index discs on reels 1 and 2)
684-60 = 5L-JP-3
684-63 = 5L-JP-3A

the same reel wiper wiring and payout counter disc is used on all of them.  The difference is what column of rivets the reel 3 wipers wind up on when reel 3 indexes on the 7th tape symbol.

you can change the machine payback if you can make/modify the index disc slots and reel tapes without making any other changes to the game.  However, the index discs are hardened steel so modifying them isn't very practical.  A couple people have made them (or had them made) ... david walz is doing that process now - but he lives in alaska, so sanity is questionable :-)

there are two main hopper units ... the original with the motor on the side and the newer "snow" hopper with the motor centered behind the pinwheel.  The dollar hopper had a bigger bowl which may not fit in your cabinet and there's different pinwheels for different diameter coins.

the 922-A would have been an old-style hopper (has an override solenoid).  By the time they got to the 922-ZZD, they would be using the new hopper (no override solenoid but had a motor armature brake to stop the hopper instantly when payout finished).

in general tho, any hopper can be made to work if the base plate will fit your rails and the beau plug lines up and has the same number of pins.   Since you have a limited number of pays, it's possible you could wire your cabinet plug to work with a hopper from a different machine ... and you even have a chance it would just work without mods.  Would need to look at your other machines to see if a hopper will plug directly in, then check the docs to see if any wiring changes were needed.

'course, if your other machines were parts games or you were permanently transferring the hopper, then ya rewire the hopper to match the wiring on the 922-A cabinet plug and schematic.

[Skimoosevt]

The Index Sequence is as you mentioned. 684-[62,62,60]

If Im understanding correctly, I need to find an older style Hopper w/ override solenoid (25c pinwheel) and a "M-645-144" plate?

This combo should be the Original Hopper Assembly?

If these parts aren't all that rare, I'll probably just find what I need before Moding one of my existing.

My List of Machines is as follows.

809-ZZB
873-K
1097-4 (Low Boy)
891-2 (5c)
and a 3 Line Watermelon I dont remember the Model #

I'd add more photos, but staying under the 1Mb gets tedious.

[DavidLee]

Believe I have 2-3 hoppers in salvage.
Mainly kept them for parts.
Identifying them as a match to your machine could be a problem.
Really never paid attention to hopper, identification numbers or location if any.

[Skimoosevt]

Thx DavidLee, I think Im now in the Market for a Parts Machine. 😎

[DavidLee]

I’m not sure how I acquired extra parts. Probably from other collectors.
As every machine I thought would be a spare parts machine I fixed.
The computerized machines built after mid 1980 have quite a few useable parts.
Some times they can be bought cheap.

[wolftalk]

If Im understanding correctly, I need to find an older style Hopper w/ override solenoid (25c pinwheel) and a "M-645-144" plate?

This combo should be the Original Hopper Assembly?

your basic hopper need is:
- 25c pinwheel
- m-645-144 payout disc (I have one if you have to source one)
- 24 pin beau plug.  30 pin is much more common, but swapping on a 24 pin plug is easy/tedious enough (I have one of those also)
- the right wire colors if you have to rewire and want the hopper to match documentation
- mechanically stepped payout counter was used originally, but an electrically stepped one would also work with a little wiring change.

the more of the above you can find, the easier make a hopper for a 922-A machine is.   

because the game was jackpot-only, much less wiring is needed between the hopper and cabinet.   The 922-K paperwork says they used a 24 pin plug and only needed 18 pins of that.   Look in your game and confirm the hopper socket is 24 pins.

your 873-K ... assuming that game is really that model ... is also a lightning machine with a 24 pin plug.  The wire id's on the 873-K plug pins are identical to the id's on the 922-K.   The 873-K also uses the same payout counter disc. 

In other words, the 922 is pretty much an 873 with the progressive added.

you can probably take the hopper out of the 873-K and stick it in the 922-A and it will work correctly, tho ideally double check the paperwork - which I don't have for a 922-A.  Assuming the 922-A is the same as the 922-K tho, you'd be fine.  If you really want to verify, unscrew the hopper connector in the 922-A cabinet or use a mirror or pictures to verify the wire colors in the socket are what the 922-K or 873-K plug chart says.

what you really care about is the power wires.  As long as the location of wires 30, 40, 50, 70 and 80 match between the plug and socket, the worst that could happen on a wire mismatch is you toast the payout counter coil(s).  If 85-1 also matches, the payout counter reset coil would be fine.

if you have or find the paperwork for a 922-A (schem is W-1046-1763), you could check that also.

btw, I mentioned previously you only needed 20, 100 and 200 pay support on the payout disc.  Assuming your machine has a 20/40 relay on the reel mech, you also need a 40 pay trace.  40 pay happens when you have 20 pay wins on two lines at the same time.

tmi

note the 922-A schem number is 1763 while the 922-K is W-1046-1279.  That means they redrew the 922-A schematic or the game wasn't produced as a bally generic until after the versions for a bunch of specific casinos were made.

[David Walz]

Believe I have 2-3 hoppers in salvage.
Mainly kept them for parts.
Identifying them as a match to your machine could be a problem.
Really never paid attention to hopper, identification numbers or location if any.

You are going to need a sand blaster, acid, and some beer to get that hopper in shape. 

This one I picked up on eBay cheap, its a tad bit FUBAR, however I will be able to refurbish back to a 742 series hopper. The parts alone are worth the cost, the seller thinks Alaska is an island that USPS doesn't deliver. What a idiot. 

[DavidLee]

Nice hopper, looks to be in good running condition.

[Skimoosevt]

If Im understanding correctly, I need to find an older style Hopper w/ override solenoid (25c pinwheel) and a "M-645-144" plate?

This combo should be the Original Hopper Assembly?

your basic hopper need is:
- 25c pinwheel
- m-645-144 payout disc (I have one if you have to source one)
- 24 pin beau plug.  30 pin is much more common, but swapping on a 24 pin plug is easy/tedious enough (I have one of those also)
- the right wire colors if you have to rewire and want the hopper to match documentation
- mechanically stepped payout counter was used originally, but an electrically stepped one would also work with a little wiring change.

the more of the above you can find, the easier make a hopper for a 922-A machine is.   

because the game was jackpot-only, much less wiring is needed between the hopper and cabinet.   The 922-K paperwork says they used a 24 pin plug and only needed 18 pins of that.   Look in your game and confirm the hopper socket is 24 pins.

your 873-K ... assuming that game is really that model ... is also a lightning machine with a 24 pin plug.  The wire id's on the 873-K plug pins are identical to the id's on the 922-K.   The 873-K also uses the same payout counter disc. 

In other words, the 922 is pretty much an 873 with the progressive added.

I pulled the 873-K Hopper and is does have the "M-645-144" as well as a 24pin Beau plug.

Im going to double check the Wire Colors and Pinout as you suggested before trying.

Stay Tooned.... 

[Skimoosevt]

922-A Hopper Beau Plug Pinout (Female).

Looks like my 873-K Hopper will Matchup. 

See attached image.

[David Walz]

922-A Hopper Beau Plug Pinout (Female).

Looks like my 873-K Hopper will Matchup. 

See attached image.

If you build, reconditioned, a hopper you need to verify every wire, part, in the hopper. It takes time to check them with a meter, I can spend 8 hours restoring a hopper, that is a long process, and I am fortunate enough to have spare parts for the hopper.

[Skimoosevt]

If you build, reconditioned, a hopper you need to verify every wire, part, in the hopper. It takes time to check them with a meter, I can spend 8 hours restoring a hopper, that is a long process, and I am fortunate enough to have spare parts for the hopper.