Bally 902 hopper mixer question

[kjnuke]

I picked up a Bally 902 about a week ago. Machine pretty much works, but reel one  spin is slow, pretty sure the reel mech just needs cleaning/lubrication.
Some initial issues are that the reel one wiper board is cracked and crudely repaired. I have a spare wiper board I'll swap it out with, but at least the index disc slots don't have the wiper go over the cracked portion of the existing broken board. Reel wiper board 4 is also cracked and repaired, but it's a hairline and not over the rivet portion of the board, I'll probably leave that one in it.
My question is that it has a hopper mixer relay which I thought was for JPO machines only and this one is a fruit. Also, it's actuating/mixing every reel spin and doesn't stop until the reels index, doesn't seem right. It's an 8 coin multiplier, so I thought maybe they had the mixer circuit in this non-JPO due to lots of coins going in with possibly no payout, still needs to mix.
I did look at the schematic for 902-1 which is a JPO, as I didn't see one for a 902 on cdyn. Just trying get it wired up correctly when I replace that reel one wiper board, as the mixer wire comes in on that board, or whether it's even needed or correct.
 

[slcjeeper]

The mixer running for that length of time is correct for that machine.

As for the slow reel, first I would remove the reels and clean the bearings with carburetor cleaner and only oil with 3-1 oil. Be sure not to add more than a few drops as needed. Too much oil finds its way out to the reel strips causing them to stain and or delaminate. Then I would look for something in the kick-off linkage being stuck or sticky. With the reels out, the top shaft that the index levers pivot on should be able to be rotated using 2 fingers with nothing else moving. The #1 reel linkage is usually the worst of the set as it’s the most difficult to access. At the bottom back of the mech is another large shaft that has several tube spacers. Everything on this needs to be cleaned and lubed, including the spacers. After that verify everything on the smaller inner shafts are moving freely. Generally with the exception of the pinned parts, you ought to be able to slide things 1/8”-1/4” side to side on the shafts. After that, I would remove and thoroughly clean the upper and lower roller bushings on the index levers. The bottom rollers are for the kick-off. Another thing to look at is to insure that the reel shaft is locking into place in the side plates and being held firmly by the spring tensioned swivel latches. If the shaft has play, it will absorb some of the force generated at kick-off and leave you with slow spinning reels.

For the cracked contact plates I rarely replace them if it’s a clean break. To repair them I use gorilla glue. The foam does an excellent job of adhering to the board and provides excellent shear strength. Any excess out the sides is easily removed and makes for a very clean repair. For support I typically add a small piece of “U” channel vertically at the back of the board across the repair attaching to the board using the existing small square holes to pass the screws through.

[kjnuke]

Thanks for all of that info. Just wanted to make sure the hopper mixer was correct for that machine and that it's correct to mix on every spin. I have a 809 JPO that mixes randomly depending on reel index position vs every spin so I wasn't sure if this one was supposed to be the same.
That contact plate is probably fine as is, but it's not glued evenly and the board isn't straight where the break is. I'm just going to replace it as there's not many wires on the board and it's just going to bug me knowing it's like that :-).
Forgot to mention they disconnected the dashpot switch and tied the wires together, not sure why. Anti-cheat coil looks burnt also, but haven't gotten into the upper unit yet other than to have a look.
The gentleman I bought it from said he'd had it since the early 2000s and purchased from a business that "refurbished it". So far not real impressed with what they've done.

[slcjeeper]

The Dashpot switch should be adjusted to break contact when the handle is pulled forward roughly about 1/2”. This prevents a player from adding additional coins while pulling the arm and returns the coins to the player. When adjusted properly and the coin reject coil inside the coin mech is working properly, without any coins inserted, you should be able to hear the coin reject coil click as the handle is pulled forward. This cuts power to the coin mech coil and is the same state the machine was in if the power was off. This is good to have working for troubleshooting because it instantly tells you if the 50v coil circuit is working. With the Dashpot switch open, the circuit to the handle lock is cut and the handle won’t be able to be pulled. My guess is tying the switch together was an effort to eliminate that switch as a trouble point, but who knows.

[kjnuke]

Yep, I'll wire it up as designed. Switch looks fine. Thanks!

[wolftalk]

fwiw, the 883 "arrow line" is a fruit machine and docs are on cdyn.  It has a mixer relay.

the 902 is pretty much the same as the 883 ... they are the same schematic, reel wiper wiring, and payout disc.   Dunno about the index discs, but only the reel 1 tape is different.

unfortunately, I don't have the definition file for the m-220-24 reel 1 tape that the 883 used, so I dunno how it's different from the m-220-[48 or 56] the 902 used. 

[kjnuke]

Thanks, I'll reference the 883 schematic.
New to me that there are machines other than JPO's that have a mixing relay in them. The 809 JPO I have mixes randomly depending on reel index position also vs this one that mixes on every spin, just wasn't sure if that was normal.
First machine with a odds motor also, just trying to decipher how it all works on the schematic, I assume it's there depending on whether it pays out on more than one line.

[wolftalk]

New to me that there are machines other than JPO's that have a mixing relay in them. The 809 JPO I have mixes randomly depending on reel index position also vs this one that mixes on every spin, just wasn't sure if that was normal.
First machine with a odds motor also, just trying to decipher how it all works on the schematic, I assume it's there depending on whether it pays out on more than one line.

I didn't notice the mixing on every spin, but yup, that's how the thing works.  I assume with potentially 8 coins going in per spin they felt the need to mix even on a higher hit frequency fruit machine.

the reel tape symbols are arranged so multiple line wins just add a smaller pay to the main winning pay amount.  That's all handled by the odds disc and the extra pay traces in the upper-left of the payout disc.  So that leaves the question of what the odds motor is doing ....

it looks like it's there to provide a sequence of switch closures when the payout counter needs to be reset for payout multiplication, and to make sense of it you need to have the timing diagram for the switches on the odds motor cams. 

the idea is you can't have a bunch of things like stepping the odds follower unit, resetting the payout counter and ejecting coins all happening at the same time as the result would be unpredictable, so the cams guarantee the events happen in a particular order with enough time between them for each to complete.

the first machine that I know of that bally documented the cam timing is the 910, tho a lot of the cams are related to payout when using replay register (credit number assembly).  You could look at that timing diagram and see if your game is the same for cams 1-4.  Cam 1 is the "carry over" cam which keeps the odds motor powered until it reaches an index position, so that cam is almost certainly the same.

tmi
----

bally did payout multiplication two ways:

1] use of multiplier units that look like pinball machine score reels.  These units changed how often the payout counter steps up as coins are ejected from the hopper.  This approach requires an electrically stepped payout counter unit.

2] reset the payout counter and let the game pay again ... in this case up to 7 times.  The odds follower unit is counting the number of times the reset and pay again sequence is done and this approach is used with mechanically stepped payout counters (ones that step up once for each coin ejected).

why they did [2] is speculation ... it's possible some customers were concerned with an electrically stepped unit having a circuit problem and the hopper getting dumped out.  The mechanically stepped approach was more bullet-proof, but bally eventually added the safety timer circuit so it became a non-issue.

[kjnuke]

OK, great. Thanks for the detailed explanation of what's happening with the odds motor and why it's there. I knew it had something to do with the timing, but that's about it.
I'm familiar with the multiplier units and how they work to pay out, but didn't realize the pay board reset each time with these mechanically stepped machines depending on how many coins were played.
Also, thanks for confirming the coin mixing is correct for every spin.
Finishing up a 1113, and then I'll dig into this one. Happy I found it, I do like the bonus reel feature, something different.