EEPROM Data Failure

[tjankovs]

Hello...I am getting the EEPROM data failure warning more and more often on a cold boot of the machine.  A quick press of the reset switch and closing the door usually fixes it the first time.  I am guessing the EEPROM is failing to write correctly leading to a mismatch with the RAM.  Does anyone know the P/N so I can solder a new one to the motherboard?  I assume my stats saved on the battery backed up RAM will rewrite the new EEPROM after it is installed?  Do I need any of these CLR chips?  Guessing no.

Thanks
TJ

[Chris-socal]

Have you lifted the ICs that are in sockets and cleaned the pins?
Also, have you verified that the 5v line is at 5v? You would need to attach a clip to a the 5v leg of one of the ICs since it is regulated on the game board. If the 5v line drops below 4.8 or so it can cause the eeproms to error. It isn’t common on these but it could happen. Or a capacitor could have failed.

Chris

[tjankovs]

Good call...the 5v may be low as the temperature has dropped.  I'll check that out with the scope.

TJ

[knagl]

In my experience I only once ever needed a RAM clear on a PE, and while I don't remember the exact sequence of events, it was after trying an unusual game in a board. Generally speaking you'll almost never need a RAM clear chip for a PE+, just possibly a SET chip to re enable a bill validator.

[Chris-socal]

I concur Kevin.
TJ, I doubt the 5v line would go low due to temperature. It would be a component failure on the voltage regulator circuit. Easily checked. More likely an eeprom has oxidation or bad connection on a leg.

[tjankovs]

I concur Kevin.
TJ, I doubt the 5v line would go low due to temperature. It would be a component failure on the voltage regulator circuit. Easily checked. More likely an eeprom has oxidation or bad connection on a leg.

The EEPROM is soldered into the motherboard right so perhaps a bad joint there? 

TJ

[Chris-socal]

A picture of the board sure would help.
If the eeprom doesn’t have a cover on the crystal and it has been exposed to UV for an extended period it’s possible the data got corrupted…but it takes a lot of UV exposure for that.
Honestly, we are throwing out ideas blindly because all we know is what you are telling us. Until you verify the 5v line is clean & steady 5v and you tell us you have lifted every IC that is in a socket I have no further suggestions.
Any IC in a socket needs to be lifted and closely inspected for oxidation.

Post a pic of the board from above, 1MB is perfect /max size.

Chris

[jay]

The PE+ have Eproms - chips that have small windows on the top, usually covered by stickers with their chip numbers on them,
The window is so that you can use a UV eraser to wipe the chip. I have one, the UVlight is bright and applied directly usually for 14-24hrs.
Just exposing them to indoor light would take a multitude of years if ever.

EEProms are electrical eraseable and did not exist in the era of PE+ machines. Theoretically someone could have changed out the Eprom for an EEProm doing an after market game change, these would not have any window on top. However it still should have a sticker on it with a chip number as that is best practice.

None of the EProms should be soldered to the board.
The PE+ superboard has 8 chips, Data, Program, MGO, MRO, MYO, MBO, MXO and a CAPx-Rom. The latter being a small chip that is not manufactured any more. Other than the Data and Program chips the others are used for color management and should be matched to the game. The only penalty for not having the right graphic set is wonky colors. Sometimes missing fonts.
All socketed.

The standard PE+ board does not have the Data chip and uses a CAP rom vs a CAPx

Once again a pic of your board would help.

[Tilt]

Your EEPROM on the motherboard is probably failing.  Some people here are getting the EEPROM confused with EPROMs.  There is a difference as Jay explained.  But, there is a 24C04 EEPROM on the PE+. It's an 8 pin EEPROM soldered onto the motherboard. I've attached a picture of it.  I've installed mine in a socket and labeled it because I have a couple of different MPU boards and swap the MPU board along with the backplane EEPROM so I don't have to reset game settings each time I change games out.  I recommend soldering in a socket when you replace yours as well.  That way if you ever need to replace it again you can just pull it out and install the new one. 

[Chris-socal]

All of this is why I want to see a picture of the board. A lot of this just isn’t adding up to what I know about a super board.

[Tilt]

Here's a picture of one of mine.  The daughterboard is a wingboard.

[tjankovs]

Your EEPROM on the motherboard is probably failing.  Some people here are getting the EEPROM confused with EPROMs.  There is a difference as Jay explained.  But, there is a 24C04 EEPROM on the PE+. It's an 8 pin EEPROM soldered onto the motherboard. I've attached a picture of it.  I've installed mine in a socket and labeled it because I have a couple of different MPU boards and swap the MPU board along with the backplane EEPROM so I don't have to reset game settings each time I change games out.  I recommend soldering in a socket when you replace yours as well.  That way if you ever need to replace it again you can just pull it out and install the new one.

Thanks Tilt.  The 24C04s are still around and I'll pickup a DIP socket as well.  I would like to save my game stats.  If I replace the EEPROM on the motherboard will the battery backed up RAM (CMOS) be copied to the blank EEPROM after install?  I would guess that is what happens when I press the reset after the EEPROM DATA error...the RAM with the good CRC overwrites the EEPROM with the bad CRC?  On a data failure, the non-corrupt copy will write the failed copy to get them both in-sync.

Thanks
TJ

[Chris-socal]

Hey tilt, I was talking about getting a picture from Tjankovs,
I can’t comprehend a lot of what we a Dealing with…statements like the eeproms are soldered in just don’t make any sense to me so we really need to stop speculating.
Im not really even clear what we are trying to resolve. 99% of errors on a PE are oxidation or power related.

[tjankovs]

Here are some pics for the  motherboard, superboard, and the error message on my Multipoker.

TJ

[tjankovs]

Here are the current part numbers for the EEPROM and socket as well.  Also added a pic of the location on the motherboard...mine is pretty crusty!

TJ

[Tilt]

Unfortunately you'll lose some of your statistics when you replace it.  That should resolve your problem though.

[tjankovs]

Today I got the motherboard board cleaned up and the socket installed.  New EEPROM installed.  Unfortunately I still get the EEPROM error.  It is actually worse now.  I went from successfully clearing the error after multiple resets when warmed up to the error not clearing at all after 1hr+ of warmup and dozens of resets.

Next steps...
1. Put the old EEPROM back and see if I can get to where I began.  UPDATE...this worked back to where I was.  New socket is good.
2. Order the exact EEPEOM even though the Microchip one should be fine per the datasheets.
3. Tack some wires on to SDA SCL and drag the scope out.

Does a fresh EEPROM need to get set to an initial value for the machine to use it?  All 0s or 1s?  I have an old DIP programmer somewhere around here somewhere.

TJ

[Chris-socal]

I would be really curious to see your game and data eeproms moved to a working board.
I can’t remember, did you move your board into another game to see if the game board does work? I know that probably means the game data will get messed up…unless you can find someone who has one that is socketed.

I modified my original text here when I saw that Jay already clarified eeprom and eprom.
I just don’t know if the error codes are specific. Hmmm.

Chris

[lookes]

Usually EEPROM refers to the electrically erasable chip on the motherboard. The others are usually referred to as EPROMS. Non-electrically erasable. (UV). Is there an EEPROM on these boards? There are on 1270 and 044 boards.

[Chris-socal]

I just read the manual, they have a page dedicated to error codes and that specific error is not listed. Go figure!
Just for kicks I also read through different sections just to verify that they do use the correct eeprom or eprom terminology when referring to the game eproms.