831 zzsh bell issues

[Thephoneman]

Well I've tried to figure this out on my own but I'm now stumped. Have a 5 cent 831 zzsh and I'm getting the bell and lights too flash on the 2nd and 3rd line 777, but not in the first line 777. First line pays correct other 2 lock up.  No bell for 3 bars on any line.  Not sure if the melons are supposed to ring the bell but nothing there either.  I can hear the wheel for the lights in the upper unit spinning.  I've checked contunity on the relay switches, all coils test good.  Wipers are all messaging good contact. All beau plug pins are good,  nothing bent or pushed back.  Been going thru the schematic and just can't seem to find the issue. A few pics for your pleasure

[Thephoneman]

More pics

[wolftalk]

the schem is interesting ... there's a wiper unit of some kind that is unlabeled that feeds 1-5 lamps, a jackpot lamp and the bell.  Oh, I see from your pic it's that motor driven thing on the top board.  I guess the wipers spin and make the 1,2,3,4,5 lights flash in sequence ... would need to see the entire trace pattern of the disc to know if the bell and JP light get pulsed or are constantly powered via multiple wiper fingers on opposite arms.

if there's just one set of fingers on one arm, the I'd guess the thing does a 1,2,3,4,5,ring, repeat sequence.

more pics of the motor unit and the wiring on it would help.

in any case tho, the top and bottom JP relays will power the wipers directly, while the bar, melon and center JP relays need the payout relay switch with wires 30 and 45-5 to be working because the bell and light show turns off when pay ends.   The top and bottom 777 wins lock up the game for additional hand pay, so the noise doesn't shut up until the casino does something.

in the below, sounds like the green highlight is working and the red isn't.  Could be the payout relay switch, plug connection or the 45-5 wire is busted from the top shelf plug to the first of the three devices it daisy chains to (no way to know which one).  Note that wire 45-5 is also on the reel mech, so at least one of those three relays is on the reels.

[Thephoneman]

First Pic is of the 3 relays in the upper. Next 2 are of the upper unit wheel and the 2 relays on the reels. Up way past my bedtime but I'll check in the am

[wolftalk]

ok, the jackpot flash sequence is more like a repeating [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring], where the duration of each thing in the list is the same. 

I assume the 1-5 lights are the ones around the perimeter of the top glass, but I don't have a picture of the entire game front so dunno what the top glass looks like.  Other 831's have used stars, dots, etc.   You wind up with a light chaser effect.

interesting that your labels on the relays say top/middle/bottom bars.  On an 831-ZZSH the top jackpot symbol is a 7, not a single bar.

the bar and melon relays on the reels are not likely to be a problem.  The green/white 45 wire on the reel socket could be if it goes from hopper->reel socket->top board socket.

the easiest things:

-  check the switch on the payout relay connecting wire 30 to wire 45 when the payout relay is powered.  Jumper it closed if ya want as a test, tho the bell/lights won't stop until you spin again.

-  jumper wire 45 to yellow wire 30 on the top insert board and see if a melon win rings the bell.  If it does, the problem is not on the top insert board itself, but it could still be the plug connection to the top insert board
   

[Thephoneman]

O will see what those suggestions lead to. And your are correct on the lights being on a chase pattern with a ring ring ring when it gets to the top.  This top glass has the arrows.

[Thephoneman]

-  check the switch on the payout relay connecting wire 30 to wire 45 when the payout relay is powered.  Jumper it closed if ya want as a test, tho the bell/lights won't stop until you spin again.

that was it. Funny thing is it good contunity with the meter.  But with the jumper it rang and without it didn't.  Clashed the contacts and tightened then up and it's looking good. Thank you again wolftalk for your guidance.

[wolftalk]

[Funny thing is it good contunity with the meter.

continuity is unreliable.

great for finding an open circuit, but ya gotta be careful when you get a buzz.  You need to check the actual resistance value is almost zero.  If it's a few ohms, you probably aren't checking the circuit path you think you are.

a typical meter/continuity buzzer is happy with anything under around 40 ohms as having continuity.  Since the transformer and most coils are way under that, you can get positive reading for continuity through roundabout circuit paths.

for example, stick the meter probes on the two blades of an obviously open switch and you may get continuity because a closed path exists from blade 1 to wire 30, thru the transformer winding and a relay coil to blade 2.  If you looked at the resistance reading tho, it would say something like 12 ohms.   A closed switch should be zero ohms.

if you make sure the only possible path between your two continuity probe points is the once you care about (stick paper between switch contacts, under wiper fingers, yank plugs, etc.), then a buzz is more reliable ... until you get bitten by the other problem.

a continuity test uses a low voltage and tiny current.  A cruddy switch may be perfectly happy passing the low current through, but when you try and activate a power hog like a solenoid coil, the poor connection limits the current so much that the solenoid doesn't get enough to yank in the plunger. 

you can use a voltmeter to check for a voltage drop caused by a poor connection or you can jumper around the connection and see if things work.

when ya get comfortable with the schematics, you can even jumper from wire 30 to practically anywhere in the 50V or 6V circuits (except the fused power lines) to bypass a bunch of switches/wipers as long as you're reasonably sure you won't be causing a problem.  Usually the worst case is sticking on a solenoid coil for too long and a little smoke comes out.  Even if you jumper 30 to a power wire the worst thing is you need a new fuse.

[Thephoneman]

Good stuff wolftalk.  I now owe you several cold refreshing beverages or dinners.