New Here: Bally 1113-21 - Inherited slot - Tilt light stuck ON & no payout

[ATL Slot]

I am new to New Life Games, and I've heard this is absolutely the best place to go for all things slot help. I’m hoping some of the experts here might be able to point me in the right direction.

I recently inherited a Bally slot machine from my Grandfather. He had it for a number of years and it almost always worked without a hitch for him. However, once I received it, I noticed it was having some issues with the payout.

The first issue was that it would continuously pay out whenever it hit a winning combination. I believe I successfully solved that issue by cleaning the contacts on the reels and replacing a capacitor and a resistor.

However, after changing those out, my new problem is that the Tilt light will not turn off, and I can't seem to figure out how to reset it. I've pored through the archives on this forum and tried everything I've read so far, but I just can't get the tilt light to clear.

Currently, the machine will take money and the reels will spin, but the machine won't pay out at all. The stuck tilt light is the only culprit I can think of, so that's my starting point.

Any advice on how to reset this tilt would be extremely helpful. I'm sure I'll come back with more questions after I solve this particular issue, but I would greatly appreciate any guidance or troubleshooting steps you can offer to get me past this hurdle.
Thanks in advance!

[shortrackskater]

The rest of the photos from ATL Slot:

[shortrackskater]

Welcome to NLG. 
This isn't an E series - it's an electromechanical. I've moved this to the EM section.
PLEASE don't use offsite image hosts. They WILL disappear over time. 
I've manual copied and reduced the size of all the images and added them using the NLG file system as you can see in reply #1.

Machine looks really clean! 
Someone will be along soon to assist you.

[ATL Slot]

Thanks so much for the assistance! Sorry about the photos. Will make sure to attach them properly next time!

[wolftalk]

the schematic for the basic 1113 should be close enough for your machine.

you can find it on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ in the 1113/ folder.  Schems are the w-1046-xxx files.

the tilt light is on when the hopper cutoff relay (HCR below) is unpowered, and if that happens the payout relay can't power so no pays.

there should be a pushbutton you can push when you open the door to power the HCR and it stays powered by itself.  Yellow (30) and grey/orange (97) wires on it, so I guess it's the one in the upper right of the door area above the handle box.

When you deposit a coin and the handle release relay trips, that should do it also.  When the HCR powers, the tilt light will go off.

if the tilt light doesn't turn off when you hold in the button and/or when the handle is unlocked, you'll want to debug the HCR coil circuit. 

I assume the HCR is the ice cube relay on the hopper ... is that the one you replaced a resistor and capacitor on?  There's also a diode.

the HCR is not essential ... you could pull it out and short the orange (70) wire to the red/blue (12) wire on the socket and the payout relay could power on a win then.  It's almost as easy to fix the problem tho if the schem makes sense.
   

is that enough info?  If not, yell.

[ATL Slot]

the schematic for the basic 1113 should be close enough for your machine.

you can find it on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ in the 1113/ folder.  Schems are the w-1046-xxx files.

the tilt light is on when the hopper cutoff relay (HCR below) is unpowered, and if that happens the payout relay can't power so no pays.

there should be a pushbutton you can push when you open the door to power the HCR and it stays powered by itself.  Yellow (30) and grey/orange (97) wires on it, so I guess it's the one in the upper right of the door area above the handle box.

When you deposit a coin and the handle release relay trips, that should do it also.  When the HCR powers, the tilt light will go off.

if the tilt light doesn't turn off when you hold in the button and/or when the handle is unlocked, you'll want to debug the HCR coil circuit. 

I assume the HCR is the ice cube relay on the hopper ... is that the one you replaced a resistor and capacitor on?  There's also a diode.

the HCR is not essential ... you could pull it out and short the orange (70) wire to the red/blue (12) wire on the socket and the payout relay could power on a win then.  It's almost as easy to fix the problem tho if the schem makes sense.
   

is that enough info?  If not, yell.

@wolftalk Thank you! I think I'm understadning.

The pushbutton in the upper right of the door area above the handle box had power and when tested, did not turn off the "Tilt" light. So I don't think that's the problem.

The HCR or ice cube relay on the hopper is where I replaced a resistor and capacitor. See before and after photos below.

If I understand you right, I can remove that entire ice cube relay, cap off all of the wires that go to it except the orange (70) wire and the red/blue (12) wire -- which I would short together, correct? Or do I need to keep the relay in place, remove ONLY the orange (70) wire and the red/blue (12) wire and short them together? Alternatively, I'm assuming I could get a whole new relay.

When I received the machine, the capacitor on the hopper relay was dead. So when I was trying to replace out the capacitor, I accidentally used the incorrect one and it caused the incorrect capacitor to burst/smoke and it ended up frying the resistor. That's why I had to replace the resistor as well. It was tough since it's such a small area and I'm no expert on soldering.

[wolftalk]

the burnt up resistor is in the HCR coil circuit and should be 47 ohms 1W (or greater wattage).  Looks like ya have a 470 ohm resistor in there.

there is a 470 ohm 10W resistor attached to one of the switches on the HCR, but that one is mounted across the payout relay coil.  It's a larger rectangular ceramic resistor.

there should also be a diode in series with the 47 ohm resistor.  Typically it's inside a sleeve of some kind and you may not even notice it's there.  See schem chunk below.

any 1N400x diode is fine, where x >=4.  The common thing is an 1N4007, which just has a higher reverse bias breakdown rating.

usually when the resistor fries the capacitor shorted.  Old age catches up with electrolytic caps :-)  Can't see the specs on your replacement cap, but I assume ya just matched the 50uF / 150V from the original.

look like ya know that the capacitor and diode need to be installed the right way around (the band on the diode end corresponds to the rectangular part of the diode symbol).

the "reset button sw" on the schem is the pushbutton on your door frame.  It's there so when the casino does a hopper fill, they can power the HCR so the pay can continue.  They can't release the handle to power the HCR since that disconnects the payout circuit.

if your original highest possible resolution pics are still available, please let me know where they are ... you can email me at slotpics@cdyn.com and I'll grab them (or just email them) and add them to the bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ site.

[ATL Slot]

the burnt up resistor is in the HCR coil circuit and should be 47 ohms 1W (or greater wattage).  Looks like ya have a 470 ohm resistor in there.

there is a 470 ohm 10W resistor attached to one of the switches on the HCR, but that one is mounted across the payout relay coil.  It's a larger rectangular ceramic resistor.

there should also be a diode in series with the 47 ohm resistor.  Typically it's inside a sleeve of some kind and you may not even notice it's there.  See schem chunk below.

any 1N400x diode is fine, where x >=4.  The common thing is an 1N4007, which just has a higher reverse bias breakdown rating.

usually when the resistor fries the capacitor shorted.  Old age catches up with electrolytic caps :-)  Can't see the specs on your replacement cap, but I assume ya just matched the 50uF / 150V from the original.

look like ya know that the capacitor and diode need to be installed the right way around (the band on the diode end corresponds to the rectangular part of the diode symbol).

the "reset button sw" on the schem is the pushbutton on your door frame.  It's there so when the casino does a hopper fill, they can power the HCR so the pay can continue.  They can't release the handle to power the HCR since that disconnects the payout circuit.

if your original highest possible resolution pics are still available, please let me know where they are ... you can email me at slotpics@cdyn.com and I'll grab them (or just email them) and add them to the bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ site.

Thanks so much for the help! I think I'm starting to understand... I apologize, this isn't my forte.

Does it seem to you that the resistor is the main issue? Here is the one I purchased as a replacement for the fried one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BBB5WSVD?th=1 4.7K Ohm Resistor Axial Lead, 5W Metal Oxide Film Resistor via Amazon. Do you have any links for the correct one I should purchase?

The capacitor I used is: 50uF 150v CDE Axial Electrolytic Capacitor WBR50-150

look like ya know that the capacitor and diode need to be installed the right way around (the band on the diode end corresponds to the rectangular part of the diode symbol).

Thanks. Does it appear I wired these corectly?

Going back to your previous reply: can I completely bypass the HCR by capping everything that is attached and hard wiring the orange and red/blue wires?

if your original highest possible resolution pics are still available, please let me know where they are ... you can email me at slotpics@cdyn.com and I'll grab them (or just email them) and add them to the bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ site.

Here are my photos: https://imgur.com/a/1fTOYAC
Happy to email them as well or upload higher quality. I can also take some more as well if helpful.

Thanks again for the help!

[wolftalk]

Thanks so much for the help! I think I'm starting to understand... I apologize, this isn't my forte.

Does it seem to you that the resistor is the main issue? Here is the one I purchased as a replacement for the fried one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BBB5WSVD?th=1 4.7K Ohm Resistor Axial Lead, 5W Metal Oxide Film Resistor via Amazon. Do you have any links for the correct one I should purchase?

The capacitor I used is: 50uF 150v CDE Axial Electrolytic Capacitor WBR50-150

apparently not my forte either ... I see now the 3rd band on your resistor is red (x100), not brown (x10).  I'm not sure if the whisky or lack of it is responsible :-)

you actually want a black band (x1) ... so yellow-purple-black = 47 ohms.  The gold 4th band indicates 5% tolerance (actual value is +/- 5% of the banded value).  Actually a bit overkill, as is the 5W rating.

for power rating, you can use anything >= 1W, so 2W or 5W are fine.  The resistor just gets physically bigger the more power it can handle.  10W and above would be too bulky for the space.

still, doesn't hurt to have a resistor that can handle more power than the original 1W one, so you can just get another batch from the same amazon seller ... just pick the 5W47 ohms option (you'll see the pic changes to yellow-purple-black-gold bands)

the capacitor is right.

look like ya know that the capacitor and diode need to be installed the right way around (the band on the diode end corresponds to the rectangular part of the diode symbol).

Thanks. Does it appear I wired these corectly?

can't see a diode in the pictures or where wire 97 (grey with orange stripe) is.  The electrical tape is hiding too much :-) 

The cap looks right assuming the leg on cap that's got the (-) signs in in the stripe is going to the orange (70) wire. 

basically, there should be a grey/orange (mostly grey with orange tracer) wire (97 on the schem) that's attached to the unbanded end of a diode. The diode isn't usually mounted anywhere, so it's usually inside an insulating sleeve.  The banded end of the diode goes to the resistor, and the resistor finally attaches to the relay socket.

if you don't want to use tape to insulate and have some wire laying around, strip off some insulation and use is as a sleeve.  Heat shrink tubing also works well (e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Industry-Leading-Adhesive-Connectors-Waterproof-Electrical/dp/B0GVBMYTXY or https://www.amazon.com/108PCS-Heat-Shrink-Tubing-Kit/dp/B0DRKLWLY5)

Going back to your previous reply: can I completely bypass the HCR by capping everything that is attached and hard wiring the orange and red/blue wires?

you could, but it's not ideal.

while you are waiting a couple days for amazon to get you more resistors, you could unplug the relay from the socket and stick a paper clip in the correct female terminals so you connect the orange (70) and red/blue (12) wires together.  That should make the game pay ok.

I'll grab your pics from the imgur site.  If there's higher resolution versions, that'd be great ... but what's there is good.  The goal is pictures of the entire sides of a unit, inside of the entire door, etc.  When the pics are high res, people can zoom in for the details like seeing wire colors.

[ATL Slot]

apparently not my forte either ... I see now the 3rd band on your resistor is red (x100), not brown (x10).  I'm not sure if the whisky or lack of it is responsible :-)

@wolftalk your advice was SPOT ON! Thanks so much for all the help. It was, indeed the incorrect resistor. Thank you for the assistance.

I am still having a few issues -- which lead me to change the capacitor and resistor in the first place.

I added a video to the imgur files as it was too big to upload here. When I put coins in, the gate that is supposed to open (or close?) to not allow any more coins doesn't seem to want to release. Not sure why... But it'll allow me to continue to add coins.

Second issue: everything seems to be paying correctly on a 1 coin and 2 coin play. But when I add 3 coins -- it's never ending pay. Any ideas?

Thanks again for all the help on the earlier issue. I'm glad its up and running!

[wolftalk]

I added a video to the imgur files as it was too big to upload here. When I put coins in, the gate that is supposed to open (or close?) to not allow any more coins doesn't seem to want to release. Not sure why... But it'll allow me to continue to add coins.

right idea, wrong thing :-)

the thing in your video is the coin diverter ... its job is to send inserted coins into the overflow chute when the hopper is full.  The black microswitch on the bottom right of the hopper front controls the diverter coil.  When the weight of the coins in the hopper gets high enough, the hopper bowl tips a little and toggles that microswitch.

a typical home use machine never has a full hopper, so the diverter coil is always powered.

rejecting a coin back to the tray when the game doesn't want one is the coin lockout magnet or scavenger coil. $1 machines typically had the scavenger setup, but I don't see it poking out the right side of your coin mech frame.  Can you add a pic of the inside of the door with the coin mech removed?  The mech itself is also odd.

one test to see if you have a working lockout is drop in a coin while the reels are spinning ... if it doesn't reject it, then the entire system isn't working.  If it does reject, then it's probably an issue with a switch on the coin unit or the coin unit isn't stepping up correctly.

Second issue: everything seems to be paying correctly on a 1 coin and 2 coin play. But when I add 3 coins -- it's never ending pay. Any ideas?

model 1113 is a "buy a pay" machine when adding coins enabled more of the payout table,  e.g. 777 was only a winner if you played 3 coins.

model 1114 is a 3 coin multiplier "low boy" like you have.

while serial plate swaps is pretty common, your machine looks like someone converted a 1113 to a 1114 (sharpie on reel wipers, the location of the X2/X3 units is a little off and they aren't mounted on a backplate, etc.) 

take a look at the 1114 paperwork on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ - the wire colors on the X2/X3 unit coils don't match a 1114 schem tho, so you may have to do some reverse-engineering.  The people doing conversions usually used the bally design, and the better conversion companies used the correct wire colors.
 

the way it works is:

1] first coin - coin unit is reset and every coin ejected from the hopper steps up the payout counter unit

2] second coin - coin unit steps up once from reset and every coin ejected steps the X2 unit ... which is the pinball machine score reel with the numbers on it mounted above the transformer.  On every other step, wipers on that unit also send the coin eject pulse to the payout counter step-up coil.  i.e. the payout counter steps for every other coin ejected, so the payout is doubled.

3] third coin - coin unit is stepped up twice from reset, and the X3 score reel with no numbers is used so the payout counter steps once for every three coins ejected. 

while the X2 and X3 units are similar, the X2 is literally a pinball score reel, so it takes 10 steps to go around once.  The X3 unit takes 12 steps.

first thing to look at is whether the X3 unit is stepping on a 3 coin payout.  If no, the problem is likely on the coin unit or the X3 unit coil is toast - or the unit is gunked up.  If the X3 unit is stepping and the wipers are turning, then it's probably just a cruddy contact plate.  Hopefully the traces aren't damaged.

I'd probably unplug the X2/X3 units and remove them to take a look at the contact plates and manually step the units to ensure they are stepping well.   

if you step the X2/X3 units and don't care too much about where the wiper position is, the first X2 and/or X3 payout may be wrong.  After the first pay using each unit tho, the units will be stopped at synced positions and pays will be correct.