809-ZZB another project. (blame Wolftalk)

[David Walz]

I am on my 7 or 8 Bally EM so it is not any problem.

hmmm ... are those made with whiskey, rum, or vodka?

no fair saying ya found problems then not saying what they were.  Telling everyone what ya screwed up is not only entertaining (for us), but it's also helpful when people get machines someone else screwed up and you gave a symptom/solution description that may match their situation.

Problem is the payout is not working except for the cherries and they are not accurate. I haven't delved into it yet, I need to set up the 90 wire and start testing the wiring.
If you remember this machine was switched to 25¢, unsuccessfully, and I switched it back to the original 5¢ using the schematic.
I've been restoring the Mills slot machine and finally completed it, so I am back at to the 809-ZZB restoring it.

[David Walz]

Well, first I checked out the hopper wiring. Everything checks out on the coin wires.

The F wire (as in F troop) is something that I need to check out to see if it is wired correctly. 
F on the Plug #25 is black
F on the M-645-118 is gray.

[wolftalk]

the wire on the F trace on the payout counter disc is wire 93.  It goes to the payout relay coil and the payout counter step-up arm switch.  It doesn't leave the hopper, so shouldn't be on the hopper plug.

the black wire on your plug is wire 80 and it's on pin 22.

per the schem, plug pin 25 has wire 93-1 on it.   This is a great time to rant that wire 93 and 93-1 are two completely different wires that look exactly the same.  There's a limit to the number of color combinations you can make, so you have to reuse the same color wire in different circuits.

except for yellow wire 30, if you see two wires that are the same color you cannot assume they are pieces of the same wire.

orange wire 70 connected to coils is all the same wire, but on a few games there was a 70-1 wire.  However, 70-1 was used to connect the transformer to the 50V fuse, and the other side of the fuse was wire 70 ... so a solid orange wire is almost certainly wire 70 everywhere you see it unless the fuse was blown.

so what is 93-1 for?  You have to hunt around on the schem and find the line with that specific id.  Eventually you'll find it's going to the hopper level switch and the other end is going to the coin diverter coil on the door.

[David Walz]

the wire on the F trace on the payout counter disc is wire 93.  It goes to the payout relay coil and the payout counter step-up arm switch.  It doesn't leave the hopper, so shouldn't be on the hopper plug.

the black wire on your plug is wire 80 and it's on pin 22.

per the schem, plug pin 25 has wire 93-1 on it.   This is a great time to rant that wire 93 and 93-1 are two completely different wires that look exactly the same.  There's a limit to the number of color combinations you can make, so you have to reuse the same color wire in different circuits.

except for yellow wire 30, if you see two wires that are the same color you cannot assume they are pieces of the same wire.

orange wire 70 connected to coils is all the same wire, but on a few games there was a 70-1 wire.  However, 70-1 was used to connect the transformer to the 50V fuse, and the other side of the fuse was wire 70 ... so a solid orange wire is almost certainly wire 70 everywhere you see it unless the fuse was blown.

so what is 93-1 for?  You have to hunt around on the schem and find the line with that specific id.  Eventually you'll find it's going to the hopper level switch and the other end is going to the coin diverter coil on the door.

Yes, I have traced all of the wire, beau plug in the hopper and according to the 809-ZZB "WOLFTALK" schematics its correct. On to check out the beau plug connections from the hopper to the reels, and upper cabinet.

[David Walz]

I found a issue with the hopper contact's on the M-645-118 they are acting wanky. I need to work on them. 

[David Walz]

The hopper has a problem, I replaced some parts, (see "before" bottom photo and "after" top photo) and I think I have the cherry payout working correctly. I need to keep working on the payouts.
Also I need to replace the hopper female beau plug, it is acting erratic like the upper plug before I replaced it. Thankfully I have a stock of beau plugs that are in excellent condition.

This machine wasn't kept in a home, garage, where temperatures are constant. 

[David Walz]

Today was a productive day. I checked out the reels, disc, and wiring in the reel assembly. What I discovered was that#1 strip was off by a snot, #2 was way off outside of the ballpark, and #3 was snot on. I really thought that I checked them out before I reassembled the reels. 

O well what the hell, they are in alignment 100%. 

[David Walz]

Now....... I have a issue with the hopper resetting after a win, I need to start checking it out. The arrow points to the coil, and it works, the win light is on, resetting after a win doesn't happen. I can manually reset it and it works, win light goes out.

[David Walz]

After studying the wiring diagram I can see a issue, the coin accepted light is not working. Both the win light are on the same wiring path.

[David Walz]

I did some research, and I have a better idea of the problem.

[David Walz]

Interesting issue..... I cleaned the contacts on the reels, using my extensions to check it out it works great, when I use the reels in the machine it doesn't work. Another beau plug replacement, the top was the same, wanky. 

[David Walz]

I have figured out that the reel beau plugs are wanky and I need to replace the beau plugs. It's affecting the hopper and other things.

[David Walz]

The beau plugs are replaced in the reels and poof the issues have vanished.

[David Walz]

The lights are working flawlessly.

[David Walz]

On with the next problems:
The hopper spits out the coins, a extra nickel pops out 40% of the time. 

The reset key switch on the side of the machine is needing to be recalibrated. Some of the higher wins are triggering it, I need to figure out how to set it up correctly at $10.00 to shut down.   

 I have my schematic, coffee, and my nap. 

[wolftalk]

The hopper spits out the coins, a extra nickel pops out 40% of the time. 

the override solenoid on the top of the hopper is supposed to prevent that by kicking the coin back into the bowl. 

the problem is the pinwheel doesn't stop instantly when the motor power turns off, so that extra coasting to a halt can eject a coin. 

the new style hopper has a brake on the motor armature/rotor so it does stop the pinwheel instantly and the override solenoid wasn't needed.

The reset key switch on the side of the machine is needing to be recalibrated. Some of the higher wins are triggering it, I need to figure out how to set it up correctly at $10.00 to shut down.   

the switch just bypasses a couple jackpot lockup relay switches and powers the coin lockout coil so a coin could be inserted to reset the machine.  It was only used by casinos that didn't open the door to record hand-pays on a piece of paper they left inside the machine. 

since opening the door and triggering the coin switch manually clears the lockup, the release switch was often removed or ignored.

when the machine goes into jackpot lockup (powers the jackpot lockup relays) is determined by wiring on the odds unit disc, and that wiring also determines if the game pays some coins as well as locking up.

the 809-ZZB schems shows the game will pay:
- up to 300 coins (2BA win with x3 multiplier) without lockup
- 200 coins for higher wins and game locks up for hand pay of the balance

the trick when looking at the schematic is notice how the jackpot lockup relay switches divert the circuit to bypass the odds disc and always power the X2 pay circuit and the 100 trace on the payout counter disc.

[David Walz]

The hopper spits out the coins, a extra nickel pops out 40% of the time. 

the override solenoid on the top of the hopper is supposed to prevent that by kicking the coin back into the bowl. 

the problem is the pinwheel doesn't stop instantly when the motor power turns off, so that extra coasting to a halt can eject a coin. 

the new style hopper has a brake on the motor armature/rotor so it does stop the pinwheel instantly and the override solenoid wasn't needed.

The reset key switch on the side of the machine is needing to be recalibrated. Some of the higher wins are triggering it, I need to figure out how to set it up correctly at $10.00 to shut down.   

the switch just bypasses a couple jackpot lockup relay switches and powers the coin lockout coil so a coin could be inserted to reset the machine.  It was only used by casinos that didn't open the door to record hand-pays on a piece of paper they left inside the machine. 

since opening the door and triggering the coin switch manually clears the lockup, the release switch was often removed or ignored.

when the machine goes into jackpot lockup (powers the jackpot lockup relays) is determined by wiring on the odds unit disc, and that wiring also determines if the game pays some coins as well as locking up.

the 809-ZZB schems shows the game will pay:
- up to 300 coins (2BA win with x3 multiplier) without lockup
- 200 coins for higher wins and game locks up for hand pay of the balance

the trick when looking at the schematic is notice how the jackpot lockup relay switches divert the circuit to bypass the odds disc and always power the X2 pay circuit and the 100 trace on the payout counter disc.

Yes, the same problem I've had before with the older style motors. I guess that I need to locate another one. I have several motors, just not this one.

[wolftalk]

the motor doesn't matter ... you should be able to pull the hopper and attach a drill chuck to the motor rotor/armature.   Use the drill to spin the rotor so the pinwheel turns.

since the override solenoid isn't powered, the coins should all deflect back into the bowl.

[David Walz]

the motor doesn't matter ... you should be able to pull the hopper and attach a drill chuck to the motor rotor/armature.   Use the drill to spin the rotor so the pinwheel turns.

since the override solenoid isn't powered, the coins should all deflect back into the bowl.

Right, I got it. 

[wolftalk]

also keep in mind the payout counter steps up when the switches operated by the roller pivot arm open.

if you have the pivot arm height or switches adjusted so the switches barely open, the payout counter won't step to end payout until the exiting coin is almost all the way out from under the roller and the next coin is approaching the roller.  You'd have to look to see if the kicker attached to the override solenoid can still deflect that approaching coin into the bowl.